TZ first ride report.

CBRVFR · 10-22-2007, 10:44 PM

"The first time you ride the 250, it's like FAAAAAAAAAAAAK!!"

I want to illustrate something. Stand up. Yeah, you. Push your chair back, you can read the screen from there.

Ready? Place your feet apart the approximate distance as the footpegs on your street-legal sport bike, and get on the balls of your feet. Now, get into your riding crouch, and lean(You can hang on to the table as if it were a gas tank..) , putting the approximate amount of weight on your leg as you would if you were knee down in a corner, for a count of 10. Now do the other side. Fine. Straighten up, and relax. Seamus, take another sip, you earned it.

Now let's do that again, but this time move each of your feet inward two or three inches. Something on the order of 14" apart. Knee down, 10 seconds. Yeah, I thought so . Repeat after me. FAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

An inauspicious beginning..

The first time I got to the gate, The bike wasn't quite up to temp so I sat there revving it (it will NOT idle) watching the gauge move upward. Finally, I was ready to join the traffic that was already out on the track. Howdy waved me on and then suddenly changed his mind, stepping in front of me and yelling STOP! I hit the brake lever for the very first time and dumped it. Nice brakes. That lever was history, though. I went back into the pits and looked through all the spares I got with the bike. I was confident I had 2 levers in there, and sure enough, I did. Two damned clutch levers.

Fortunately, though, the brake lever is the same as the one on my SV, and I had a couple of those. Next time out, I finally got to ride it, and I had a nearly instant revelation: I really, really have to get into shape to ride this bike!

Besides all the new leg muscles that came to my attention, the stretch to the bars is long, and the tank punches right into my currently too-large gut, making it hard to breathe. I was stretched out so much that my neck cramped looking ahead through the esses. The gearshift is too far away for me to reach without repositioning my foot.

Other than that, life begins at 10,000 rpms. 9,000, not so much. 8500? Fuggedaboudit. Try again next corner, thanks and come again.

When you get it right, the acceleration is explosive and you can stay with the pack of hotted up 600s and literbikes. I got it *nearly* right once. Nice steering damper..

It turns magically. I have no feel yet for how much corner speed it could carry into a turn, or how much traction it will maintain if you hit that powerband before you get it stood up, but it's WAY more than I have ever experienced. Taking turns at speeds that would have me hanging off on the SV, heroically dragging my knee, the TZ would just drive through without any drama or even any appreciable lean angle. I can't imagine how fast you'd be going to drag hard parts or elbows.

Adjustments will be made before next season, to the bike and to my ability to ride it comfortably. Due to the discomfort and the fact that I was riding slowly, I was thinking of getting the SV teched in, but an old friend who raced and won on these was at his first trackday in many years, and he insisted I continue to lap on the little torture device. Eventually was able to stay out long enough to relax a bit, and get some heat in the tires.

Many Tylenols later, I am happy with the bike and confident I can come to terms with it. It will take a while, though. The best way I can put it is that it seems like a new art form. A mandolin to a guitar player, sculpture to a painter, a novel to a lyricist. Similar in some respects, but a requiring a huge commitment in time and thought to master.

Just getting it to run correctly and safely (without seizing) represents a huge learning curve. Coming to terms with it's capabilities and adjusting my riding to make use of some of those is going to be a blast.

SheepOfBlue · 10-22-2007, 10:51 PM

sounds fun. The explosive sounds like some of the old 2 stroke dirt trackers but on pavement

bwhip · 10-22-2007, 11:46 PM

Thanks for the report. That sounds like a really interesting and fun new adventure, and I look forward to hearing of your progress as you get more comfortable with it and get through the learning curve.

The-Undertaker · 10-23-2007, 12:21 AM

Welcome to the club.

To take some of the pain out of riding it you might want to try to add an extra seat pad and move the clip-on back a little. Riding a 250 is like driving a F1 car and riding a street bike is like driving a NASCAR.

seamus · 10-23-2007, 12:36 AM

There's no such thing as a long stretch to the bars.

Sounds like you had a great time riding that beast. There's nothing more comforting than being uncomfortable and learning.

HondaGalToo · 10-23-2007, 07:03 AM

Motrin works better for muscle soreness than Tylenol.

At least for me.
Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you, but are having an awesome experience. Change is good! There's a guy in NESBA who has one of those, and a Honda RS125. He absolutely rails on the thing. In July, he was flying around me on the outside of turn 10 at BeaveRun. Last weekend, he was bumped to Advanced. He lives in PA, but who knows, maybe if you get to BeaveRun....
I can put you in touch with him if you want, or check the Mid-Atlantic section on the NESBA forum. His name's John, screen name is JZ. Nice guy.

Oh, and how is Grattan's new pavement?

Heavy-Dee · 10-23-2007, 07:55 AM

Sounds awful. Like awful good fun.

Shenders1 · 10-23-2007, 08:45 AM

I want one!

There, I said it.

abtech · 10-23-2007, 08:57 AM

GP Machines are like precision tools. You need to tweak them until they fit your hand and are optimized for the task at hand.

Spend some time adjusting the bars and look into some adjustable rearsets. The shift linkage can be flipped for either street or GP patterns and the throw and position can be adjusted to fit your riding position as well. A seat bump pad along with some additional padding (the HRC GP pads are great as long as you use super glue) will help adjust the riding position.

Most people don't think you could ever lean these things all the way when they first ride them, but believe me a small bit of wrist pressure and you can have the thing at max lean with your elbow scraping the asphalt in a heartbeat.

That's why I said to get some seat time before you start messing around with the motor. I believe your comments about "nothing at 9K" are related to the jetting as I'm certain the nozzles and needle are probably ultra rich. If the jetting and timing are in the ballpark, the front wheel should be floating through the first three gears by the time the tach crosses 8500. You should probably check the exhaust valves and make certain they aren't packed with oil, as this will impede their movement which also kills the midrange. I used to disassemble mine every couple of weekends and clean them out (about a twenty minute job once you figure out where everything goes).

Your comments about the "long reach to the bars" kills me, as I had my bars as far forward as possible without hitting the fairing and I still had to hunch . . .

slickwill · 10-23-2007, 10:23 AM

Just curious, how tall are each of you? I'm wondering where on the spectrum I would fall at 5'10" because I have always wanted a 250. Will I be reaching, hunched, or "just right?"

SheepOfBlue · 10-23-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

...

Your comments about the "long reach to the bars" kills me, as I had my bars as far forward as possible without hitting the fairing and I still had to hunch . . .

Tall people suck!

I get some of the effects he describes on my RC

nhfirefighter13 · 10-23-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickwill

Just curious, how tall are each of you? I'm wondering where on the spectrum I would fall at 5'10" because I have always wanted a 250. Will I be reaching, hunched, or "just right?"

I think CBR is 3'10" and Abtech is like 7'5"

slickwill · 10-23-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

I think CBR is 3'10" and Abtech is like 7'5"

That makes me just about perfect. Especially since I don't have a gut to hinder my breathing like CBR

Sorry.

luvtolean · 10-23-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

"The first time you ride the 250, it's like FAAAAAAAAAAAAK!!"

Heh, I re-watched Faster 1 and 2 in the last couple of days. That's still my favorite part...

The-Undertaker · 10-23-2007, 11:39 AM

I guess we have our on comfort cross to bear. At 6’ 215lb on a good day I found that working on my flexibility is the key.

The-Undertaker · 10-23-2007, 11:41 AM

This guy has great 250 form

CBRVFR · 10-23-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

I think CBR is 3'10" and Abtech is like 7'5"

Nice one.

Dick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

GP Machines are like precision tools. You need to tweak them until they fit your hand and are optimized for the task at hand.

Spend some time adjusting the bars and look into some adjustable rearsets. The shift linkage can be flipped for either street or GP patterns and the throw and position can be adjusted to fit your riding position as well. A seat bump pad along with some additional padding (the HRC GP pads are great as long as you use super glue) will help adjust the riding position.

Makes sense. The shifter is just too short where is is located (it pivots on the case with the end pointing toward the peg), but I don't see why I can't attach a shifter that pivots on the footpeg and run longer linkage. It would be more likely to break in case of a crash, but I don't see any other downside. Or I could have a longer one made..

Thanks for all the advice.

Interesting about the exhaust valves. I guess that's what people mean by the engine 'loading up,' then?

Quote:

Your comments about the "long reach to the bars" kills me, as I had my bars as far forward as possible without hitting the fairing and I still had to hunch . . .

I was also going to mention that some of the functions of your mixing desk are unreasonably distant as well...

luvtolean · 10-23-2007, 12:14 PM

"Loading up" is just the engine running too rich (and can foul the plugs)...cleaning the power valves is its own brand of fun (though if it's loading up, they will get dirty more quickly).

Oven cleaner is a popular choice of cleaner.

CBR929RE · 10-23-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

There's no such thing as a long stretch to the bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

Your comments about the "long reach to the bars" kills me, as I had my bars as far forward as possible without hitting the fairing and I still had to hunch . . .

typical giant-man gibber gabbah

seamus · 10-23-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

I think CBR is 3'10" and Abtech is like 7'5"

I was going to say Abtech is 6'4 and Dave is the exact opposite.

seamus · 10-23-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

typical giant-man gibber gabbah

Speak up, I can't hear you from all the way down there.

CBR929RE · 10-23-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

Speak up, I can't hear you from all the way down there.

you'll hear me when I punch you in the jimmies

Hammer · 10-23-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

you'll hear me when I punch you in the jimmies

You ever seen the other end of that pony tail? Do that and he will help you see it.

10-22-2007, 10:44 PM	#1
CBRVFR Godspeed, #20 Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 55 Bike(s): VFR750 SV650 TZ250 Posts: 5,097	TZ first ride report. "The first time you ride the 250, it's like FAAAAAAAAAAAAK!!" I want to illustrate something. Stand up. Yeah, you. Push your chair back, you can read the screen from there. Ready? Place your feet apart the approximate distance as the footpegs on your street-legal sport bike, and get on the balls of your feet. Now, get into your riding crouch, and lean(You can hang on to the table as if it were a gas tank..) , putting the approximate amount of weight on your leg as you would if you were knee down in a corner, for a count of 10. Now do the other side. Fine. Straighten up, and relax. Seamus, take another sip, you earned it. Now let's do that again, but this time move each of your feet inward two or three inches. Something on the order of 14" apart. Knee down, 10 seconds. Yeah, I thought so . Repeat after me. FAAAAAAAAAAAACK! An inauspicious beginning.. The first time I got to the gate, The bike wasn't quite up to temp so I sat there revving it (it will NOT idle) watching the gauge move upward. Finally, I was ready to join the traffic that was already out on the track. Howdy waved me on and then suddenly changed his mind, stepping in front of me and yelling STOP! I hit the brake lever for the very first time and dumped it. Nice brakes. That lever was history, though. I went back into the pits and looked through all the spares I got with the bike. I was confident I had 2 levers in there, and sure enough, I did. Two damned clutch levers. Fortunately, though, the brake lever is the same as the one on my SV, and I had a couple of those. Next time out, I finally got to ride it, and I had a nearly instant revelation: I really, really have to get into shape to ride this bike! Besides all the new leg muscles that came to my attention, the stretch to the bars is long, and the tank punches right into my currently too-large gut, making it hard to breathe. I was stretched out so much that my neck cramped looking ahead through the esses. The gearshift is too far away for me to reach without repositioning my foot. Other than that, life begins at 10,000 rpms. 9,000, not so much. 8500? Fuggedaboudit. Try again next corner, thanks and come again. When you get it right, the acceleration is explosive and you can stay with the pack of hotted up 600s and literbikes. I got it nearly right once. Nice steering damper.. It turns magically. I have no feel yet for how much corner speed it could carry into a turn, or how much traction it will maintain if you hit that powerband before you get it stood up, but it's WAY more than I have ever experienced. Taking turns at speeds that would have me hanging off on the SV, heroically dragging my knee, the TZ would just drive through without any drama or even any appreciable lean angle. I can't imagine how fast you'd be going to drag hard parts or elbows. Adjustments will be made before next season, to the bike and to my ability to ride it comfortably. Due to the discomfort and the fact that I was riding slowly, I was thinking of getting the SV teched in, but an old friend who raced and won on these was at his first trackday in many years, and he insisted I continue to lap on the little torture device. Eventually was able to stay out long enough to relax a bit, and get some heat in the tires. Many Tylenols later, I am happy with the bike and confident I can come to terms with it. It will take a while, though. The best way I can put it is that it seems like a new art form. A mandolin to a guitar player, sculpture to a painter, a novel to a lyricist. Similar in some respects, but a requiring a huge commitment in time and thought to master. Just getting it to run correctly and safely (without seizing) represents a huge learning curve. Coming to terms with it's capabilities and adjusting my riding to make use of some of those is going to be a blast. __________________ "...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass." Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly. Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant Last edited by CBRVFR; 10-22-2007 at 10:52 PM.

10-22-2007, 10:51 PM	#2
SheepOfBlue SRA President Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Age: 46 Bike(s): CBR1000RR, RC51, VT500FT Posts: 6,482	Re: TZ first ride report. sounds fun. The explosive sounds like some of the old 2 stroke dirt trackers but on pavement __________________ A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

10-22-2007, 11:46 PM	#3
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,938	Re: TZ first ride report. Thanks for the report. That sounds like a really interesting and fun new adventure, and I look forward to hearing of your progress as you get more comfortable with it and get through the learning curve. __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

10-23-2007, 12:21 AM	#4
The-Undertaker Join Date: 12-28-2006 Age: 37 Bike(s): Honda 929, Yamaha TZ 250 Posts: 139	Re: TZ first ride report. Welcome to the club. To take some of the pain out of riding it you might want to try to add an extra seat pad and move the clip-on back a little. Riding a 250 is like driving a F1 car and riding a street bike is like driving a NASCAR.

10-23-2007, 12:36 AM	#5
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,539	Re: TZ first ride report. There's no such thing as a long stretch to the bars. Sounds like you had a great time riding that beast. There's nothing more comforting than being uncomfortable and learning. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

10-23-2007, 07:03 AM	#6
HondaGalToo ...into the 30s Join Date: 12-16-2006 Location: New Jersey Age: 48 Bike(s): '01 929, '07 gsxr 600 Posts: 1,757	Re: TZ first ride report. Motrin works better for muscle soreness than Tylenol. At least for me. Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you, but are having an awesome experience. Change is good! There's a guy in NESBA who has one of those, and a Honda RS125. He absolutely rails on the thing. In July, he was flying around me on the outside of turn 10 at BeaveRun. Last weekend, he was bumped to Advanced. He lives in PA, but who knows, maybe if you get to BeaveRun.... I can put you in touch with him if you want, or check the Mid-Atlantic section on the NESBA forum. His name's John, screen name is JZ. Nice guy. Oh, and how is Grattan's new pavement? __________________ “I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center.” ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

10-23-2007, 07:55 AM	#7
Heavy-Dee The Murph Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 31 Bike(s): 2004 GSXR 600 Posts: 2,703	Re: TZ first ride report. Sounds awful. Like awful good fun. __________________ Epic Fail

10-23-2007, 08:45 AM	#8
Shenders1 2 Cylinders, 4 Valves, No Waiting Join Date: 01-14-2007 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 43 Bike(s): Ducati HM Posts: 971	Re: TZ first ride report. I want one! There, I said it.

10-23-2007, 08:57 AM	#9
abtech Believe Join Date: 12-14-2006 Age: 58 Bike(s): 66 Puch Scrambler Posts: 3,355	Re: TZ first ride report. GP Machines are like precision tools. You need to tweak them until they fit your hand and are optimized for the task at hand. Spend some time adjusting the bars and look into some adjustable rearsets. The shift linkage can be flipped for either street or GP patterns and the throw and position can be adjusted to fit your riding position as well. A seat bump pad along with some additional padding (the HRC GP pads are great as long as you use super glue) will help adjust the riding position. Most people don't think you could ever lean these things all the way when they first ride them, but believe me a small bit of wrist pressure and you can have the thing at max lean with your elbow scraping the asphalt in a heartbeat. That's why I said to get some seat time before you start messing around with the motor. I believe your comments about "nothing at 9K" are related to the jetting as I'm certain the nozzles and needle are probably ultra rich. If the jetting and timing are in the ballpark, the front wheel should be floating through the first three gears by the time the tach crosses 8500. You should probably check the exhaust valves and make certain they aren't packed with oil, as this will impede their movement which also kills the midrange. I used to disassemble mine every couple of weekends and clean them out (about a twenty minute job once you figure out where everything goes). Your comments about the "long reach to the bars" kills me, as I had my bars as far forward as possible without hitting the fairing and I still had to hunch . . . Attached Thumbnails __________________ Now in stereo AAA doesn't only refer to the Auto Club . . . and Seamus is awesome

10-23-2007, 10:23 AM	#10
slickwill Yep, thats camo... Join Date: 08-31-2007 Location: Idaho/Iowa Age: 29 Bike(s): Western Flyer Posts: 2,198	Re: TZ first ride report. Just curious, how tall are each of you? I'm wondering where on the spectrum I would fall at 5'10" because I have always wanted a 250. Will I be reaching, hunched, or "just right?" __________________ If it has wheels, I've crashed it, and some things that don't skis, snowmobile, card board box, giant tube, sentra, dirtbike, lawn tractor, grandmas bread tray, kayak, canoe, raft, bicycle, waterskis, tobaggan, horse, ATV, Now my CBR (women)

10-23-2007, 11:39 AM	#15
The-Undertaker Join Date: 12-28-2006 Age: 37 Bike(s): Honda 929, Yamaha TZ 250 Posts: 139	Re: TZ first ride report. I guess we have our on comfort cross to bear. At 6’ 215lb on a good day I found that working on my flexibility is the key. Attached Thumbnails

10-23-2007, 11:41 AM	#16
The-Undertaker Join Date: 12-28-2006 Age: 37 Bike(s): Honda 929, Yamaha TZ 250 Posts: 139	Re: TZ first ride report. This guy has great 250 form Attached Thumbnails

10-23-2007, 12:14 PM	#18
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	Re: TZ first ride report. "Loading up" is just the engine running too rich (and can foul the plugs)...cleaning the power valves is its own brand of fun (though if it's loading up, they will get dirty more quickly). Oven cleaner is a popular choice of cleaner. __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison Last edited by luvtolean; 10-23-2007 at 05:21 PM.