Where to look ?

gsxrm02 · 05-23-2008, 11:59 PM

As the question suggests i have been riding for about 6 months now and have been doing a lot of reading but get lots of conflicting advice on where to look when cornering.I have heard all below which one is correct ?
1.Look through the corner
2.Look at vanishing point
3.Look at apex
4.Look through apex
5.Keith codes 2 step approach

So where do you guys look on the track and on the twisty roads ?

Thanks

bwhip · 05-24-2008, 12:08 AM

I would say this depends somewhat on whether you are talking about street riding or track riding. Either way, it is a good practice to look through the corner as much as possible. However, on the street in particular, it is certainly important to be watching for sand/oil/debris on the surface of the road. I never get locked into one particular visual target, but my eyes will dart around as required to keep me safe.

Your cornering will be smoother and more successful if you are looking ahead, through the corner, rather than at the ground just in front of your bike. The bike will generally go where you are looking.

phobe · 05-24-2008, 12:20 AM

I have to challenge myself to look further through the corner... it's surprising what your periphery will pick up, and how your brain will manage it subconsciously.

SheepOfBlue · 05-24-2008, 07:34 AM

1 & 2. If you are at the dragon looking through the turn would make you look at a rock wall that adds zero value. Being a serial not looking in the right place person I would put it as "look UP". The further you look out the more vision you have thus things come at you slower giving you more time to understand and react. The vanishing point thing would apply to curves that have a lot of elevation change as what good is it to gaze out into space? But if you just keep looking up and out in general I think you will see the difference. Also I agree with BOTH Bwhip and Phobiaphobe, you can get a lot through peripheral vision but also by moving your view around you help stop target fixation. Among the side effects of target fixation is: I am looking out and see the apex and focus on it (not bad so far) but then as I approach it I keep looking at it rather than moving my focus up and past it at some point, guess what I going slower and slower until I hit my point then..... nothing I have to shift ALL of my focus to the next task and will likely KEEP looking down as that next event is close and the one after and....

As to the class consider Ed Bargy also. He is at Roebling in July and it is a bargain. It is a racing school but I think it would benefit anyone. Ping Seamus as his wife (MrsSeamus) took it with little riding experience and she can give better feedback than I can, DoubleDan also recently did Barber as a brand new track guy (though more riding experience)

Good luck and welcome.

Misti · 05-26-2008, 03:27 PM

This is a really good question on a topic that a lot of riders have difficulty with.

Where should you look when cornering? First of all, I think what is important here is to break the corner down into smaller portions. The flow of visual information your eyes are taking in as you ride a motorcycle is continuous so you need to train your eyes to continually take in information about the corner.

Take for instance the beginning of the turn, if you try to look "all the way through the corner or to the vanishing point" from the beginning of the turn, what usually happens? You end up feeling a little bit lost in the middle of the turn don't you? You lose track of the edges, sometimes running up onto a curb or over the lines, and your eyes are constantly hunting around for sources of danger, like gravel, oil, bumps etc.

So, what would be a better option then? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner from the beginning of the turn, where do you think you would want to look?

Misti

tony · 05-27-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misti

This is a really good question on a topic that a lot of riders have difficulty with.

Where should you look when cornering? First of all, I think what is important here is to break the corner down into smaller portions. The flow of visual information your eyes are taking in as you ride a motorcycle is continuous so you need to train your eyes to continually take in information about the corner.

Take for instance the beginning of the turn, if you try to look "all the way through the corner or to the vanishing point" from the beginning of the turn, what usually happens? You end up feeling a little bit lost in the middle of the turn don't you? You lose track of the edges, sometimes running up onto a curb or over the lines, and your eyes are constantly hunting around for sources of danger, like gravel, oil, bumps etc.

So, what would be a better option then? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner from the beginning of the turn, where do you think you would want to look?

Misti

Off Topic:

I enjoyed the recent article about you racing at Daytona in Roadracing World

RedRider · 05-28-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony

Off Topic:

I enjoyed the recent article about you racing at Daytona in Roadracing World

Same here...sounds like it was a real experience for your first time in the 200.

Misti · 05-31-2008, 03:31 PM

Thanks guys! Glad you enjoyed the articles, it was a pretty amazing experience.

Care to comment on where to look when entering a corner? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner, where is the first place you want your bike to end up?

Misti

slickwill · 05-31-2008, 03:41 PM

I've made a lot of effort to be better at looking through the corners more when I'm on the street so that I have every chance to see a hazard sooner but I've noticed that if I look to far ahead I have a tendency to end up cutting the corner. The bike will try to go the straight line between where I am and where I'm looking. Not always a good thing. I now have to work on using my peripheral vision more to keep me on the line I want to be on while looking ahead. I'm not there yet.

ONEvcs · 06-04-2008, 12:03 PM

It also depends on who's riding in front of you, I think.
For instance, if SOB is riding in front of me, I'm more predisposed to look through the corner than if FrenchieR6, or Misti are the ones in front of me.

Misti · 06-04-2008, 10:17 PM

So what is the difference if someone is in front of you? Do you notice that you ride better if someone faster is riding in front (or leading) you? Why is that?

Misti

CBR929RE · 06-04-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misti

So what is the difference if someone is in front of you? Do you notice that you ride better if someone faster is riding in front (or leading) you? Why is that?

Misti

haha you gotta know Juan to understand him. Sheep is a guy so if he's in front he just looks through the corner, you and Frenchie he just stares at your asses. He's a

but don't worry he's really just like a little kid, goes and plays in the gravel all the time.

Purpdust · 06-04-2008, 10:45 PM

Something that always impresses me is the following. I am going in to a turn faster than I am comfortable and remind myself from the classes I have taken "Look through the Turn and where you want to go" I say this in my head a few time and before you know it you are exactly where you wanted to be and realize that you still have room to go even faster.

PS for the Nazis this is on the track

ONEvcs · 06-05-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

haha you gotta know Juan to understand him. Sheep is a guy so if he's in front he just looks through the corner, you and Frenchie he just stares at your asses. He's a

but don't worry he's really just like a little kid, goes and plays in the gravel all the time.

I didn't see anything on the rules at Grattan against it.

And for the gravel part, that's why I'm getting a motard after I fool someone into buying my bike.

abtech · 06-05-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misti

This is a really good question on a topic that a lot of riders have difficulty with.

Where should you look when cornering? First of all, I think what is important here is to break the corner down into smaller portions. The flow of visual information your eyes are taking in as you ride a motorcycle is continuous so you need to train your eyes to continually take in information about the corner.

Take for instance the beginning of the turn, if you try to look "all the way through the corner or to the vanishing point" from the beginning of the turn, what usually happens? You end up feeling a little bit lost in the middle of the turn don't you? You lose track of the edges, sometimes running up onto a curb or over the lines, and your eyes are constantly hunting around for sources of danger, like gravel, oil, bumps etc.

So, what would be a better option then? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner from the beginning of the turn, where do you think you would want to look?

Misti

Why do you always answer a question with another question? Why don't you just say what you mean?

Misti · 06-12-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

Something that always impresses me is the following. I am going in to a turn faster than I am comfortable and remind myself from the classes I have taken "Look through the Turn and where you want to go" I say this in my head a few time and before you know it you are exactly where you wanted to be and realize that you still have room to go even faster.

PS for the Nazis this is on the track

It works like that doesn't it. But it also works the other way too, if you look at where you DON'T want to go, like into the dirt, or through the gravel then you seem to go straight for it, don't you? We need a little switch in our heads that change our survival reactions so that we don't target fix on what we don't want to hit or where we don't want to go.

Misti

05-23-2008, 11:59 PM	#1
gsxrm02 Join Date: 05-21-2008 Age: 32 Bike(s): sv650 Posts: 3	Where to look ? As the question suggests i have been riding for about 6 months now and have been doing a lot of reading but get lots of conflicting advice on where to look when cornering.I have heard all below which one is correct ? 1.Look through the corner 2.Look at vanishing point 3.Look at apex 4.Look through apex 5.Keith codes 2 step approach So where do you guys look on the track and on the twisty roads ? Thanks

05-24-2008, 12:08 AM	#2
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,938	I would say this depends somewhat on whether you are talking about street riding or track riding. Either way, it is a good practice to look through the corner as much as possible. However, on the street in particular, it is certainly important to be watching for sand/oil/debris on the surface of the road. I never get locked into one particular visual target, but my eyes will dart around as required to keep me safe. Your cornering will be smoother and more successful if you are looking ahead, through the corner, rather than at the ground just in front of your bike. The bike will generally go where you are looking. __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

05-24-2008, 12:20 AM	#3
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,644	I have to challenge myself to look further through the corner... it's surprising what your periphery will pick up, and how your brain will manage it subconsciously. __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

05-24-2008, 07:34 AM	#4
SheepOfBlue SRA President Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Age: 46 Bike(s): CBR1000RR, RC51, VT500FT Posts: 6,482	1 & 2. If you are at the dragon looking through the turn would make you look at a rock wall that adds zero value. Being a serial not looking in the right place person I would put it as "look UP". The further you look out the more vision you have thus things come at you slower giving you more time to understand and react. The vanishing point thing would apply to curves that have a lot of elevation change as what good is it to gaze out into space? But if you just keep looking up and out in general I think you will see the difference. Also I agree with BOTH Bwhip and Phobiaphobe, you can get a lot through peripheral vision but also by moving your view around you help stop target fixation. Among the side effects of target fixation is: I am looking out and see the apex and focus on it (not bad so far) but then as I approach it I keep looking at it rather than moving my focus up and past it at some point, guess what I going slower and slower until I hit my point then..... nothing I have to shift ALL of my focus to the next task and will likely KEEP looking down as that next event is close and the one after and.... As to the class consider Ed Bargy also. He is at Roebling in July and it is a bargain. It is a racing school but I think it would benefit anyone. Ping Seamus as his wife (MrsSeamus) took it with little riding experience and she can give better feedback than I can, DoubleDan also recently did Barber as a brand new track guy (though more riding experience) Good luck and welcome. __________________ A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

05-26-2008, 03:27 PM	#5
Misti Join Date: 07-19-2007 Bike(s): Kawasaki ZX6R Posts: 61	This is a really good question on a topic that a lot of riders have difficulty with. Where should you look when cornering? First of all, I think what is important here is to break the corner down into smaller portions. The flow of visual information your eyes are taking in as you ride a motorcycle is continuous so you need to train your eyes to continually take in information about the corner. Take for instance the beginning of the turn, if you try to look "all the way through the corner or to the vanishing point" from the beginning of the turn, what usually happens? You end up feeling a little bit lost in the middle of the turn don't you? You lose track of the edges, sometimes running up onto a curb or over the lines, and your eyes are constantly hunting around for sources of danger, like gravel, oil, bumps etc. So, what would be a better option then? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner from the beginning of the turn, where do you think you would want to look? Misti __________________ www.superbikeschool.com www.mistihurst.com "Leap and the net will appear!"

05-31-2008, 03:31 PM	#8
Misti Join Date: 07-19-2007 Bike(s): Kawasaki ZX6R Posts: 61	Thanks guys! Glad you enjoyed the articles, it was a pretty amazing experience. Care to comment on where to look when entering a corner? Instead of trying to look all the way through the corner, where is the first place you want your bike to end up? Misti __________________ www.superbikeschool.com www.mistihurst.com "Leap and the net will appear!"

05-31-2008, 03:41 PM	#9
slickwill Yep, thats camo... Join Date: 08-31-2007 Location: Idaho/Iowa Age: 29 Bike(s): Western Flyer Posts: 2,198	I've made a lot of effort to be better at looking through the corners more when I'm on the street so that I have every chance to see a hazard sooner but I've noticed that if I look to far ahead I have a tendency to end up cutting the corner. The bike will try to go the straight line between where I am and where I'm looking. Not always a good thing. I now have to work on using my peripheral vision more to keep me on the line I want to be on while looking ahead. I'm not there yet. __________________ If it has wheels, I've crashed it, and some things that don't skis, snowmobile, card board box, giant tube, sentra, dirtbike, lawn tractor, grandmas bread tray, kayak, canoe, raft, bicycle, waterskis, tobaggan, horse, ATV, Now my CBR (women)

06-04-2008, 12:03 PM	#10
ONEvcs Bull Fighter Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Ft. Worth Age: 40 Bike(s): '05CBR1000RR. Posts: 2,502 Images: 99	It also depends on who's riding in front of you, I think. For instance, if SOB is riding in front of me, I'm more predisposed to look through the corner than if FrenchieR6, or Misti are the ones in front of me.

06-04-2008, 10:17 PM	#11
Misti Join Date: 07-19-2007 Bike(s): Kawasaki ZX6R Posts: 61	So what is the difference if someone is in front of you? Do you notice that you ride better if someone faster is riding in front (or leading) you? Why is that? Misti __________________ www.superbikeschool.com www.mistihurst.com "Leap and the net will appear!"

06-04-2008, 10:45 PM	#13
Purpdust Join Date: 12-19-2006 Location: AB-Canada/Rome Italy Age: 33 Bike(s): gsxr 750 Posts: 1,450	Something that always impresses me is the following. I am going in to a turn faster than I am comfortable and remind myself from the classes I have taken "Look through the Turn and where you want to go" I say this in my head a few time and before you know it you are exactly where you wanted to be and realize that you still have room to go even faster. PS for the Nazis this is on the track __________________ GSXR 750 - Track CRF450X - Dirt CRF100F - Soon to be a Mini Motard