Leelover

RAH-VFR posted some very interesting undercover videos in another thread. If you have not seen them it is worth checking out.
So, do the ideas set forth in those video's represent what Muslim's believe?
Maybe not the "moderate" Muslim's...but then are those Muslim's following what the Qua ran teaches? Or are they "lukewarm" not really practicing their religion as it is meant to be?
I would like to know what exactly is the intent of Islam based on their "holy" book.
I am not looking to bash anyone of that belief system, but rather define what they are ultimately after.
I was involved in a discussion on another site with a "teacher" of Islam regarding what the Qua ran actual says. I would refer you to it, but the thread does not exist anymore .
My belief at this point (based on that discussion) is that the Qua ran advocates the placing of the whole world under Islamic law (by force, war), but not specifically the converting of infidels to Islam by force.
I am not claiming to understand this totally. I could (hope) to be wrong. If my assessment is correct, certain countries acquiring atomic weapons has a rather sinister consequence.

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"The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing." Herger the Joyous

phobe

"What the horn is to the rhinocerous, what the sting is to the wasp, the Mohammadan faith is to the Arabs."


-Winston Churchill

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Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

Revvv

Fox news aired a story earlier about aggressive Muslims. The Muslim faith is becoming more and more aggressive towards the West and America in general. They younger generations of Islam is becoming more and more violent.

Shariah Law ?????

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nedro

Don't kid yourselves. There are no moderate Muslims.



BTW Phobe, not all Arabs are Muslim.

gt702

Without starting another debate, the Christian Bible advocates winning the world to Christianity. And my discussions with an Islamic friend gives me the feeling it is a similar command in the Islamic Quran. The Quran also preaches peace and love similar to the Bible.

The real problem ( ) is in the interpretation and the level taken to "win" others over. The Bible was used years back as justification for the Crusades which went to "convert" barbarians (read infidels) to a better way. Various religions are used world wide to justify genocide. To me it is the interpretation of people with impure hearts, who are confused and bitter. ( again my )

In the end, it is the minority that cause the majority of the trouble, and the people who are humbly following their faith are not as vocal to fight back. The media love the radicals because it plays well and gets their ad revenue up. They ignore the moderate majority.

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Revvv

Everyone always brings up the Christian Crusades. Yes, it was a blip in History led by some very misguided people. It did happen, but not on the scale that Islam has led in violence. Violence has been a root in the Muslim faith.

Muhammaad himself pushed violence. He was a twisted man. He not only had multiple wives, but one of which that was known to be 9 years of age. I could go on, but it makes no sense to at the moment.

The Muslim faith is based on Muhamaad's teachings and they will never be right.

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phobe

Thanks genius. When you see the little tick marks around text it means that you are reading a quotation.

Yes there are moderate Muslims, like my boss who goes to church once a week but also goes to Vegas, gambles and drinks and treats females as equals.

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Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

RAH-VFR

That may not be a completely accurate charaterization of what the Church/state was hoping to be accomplished. In part the Church/State of christian Europe was hoping to stop the conquest that was being waged against it. Not being killed and inslaved was high on the list. Islam was intent on dominating as much territory as it could.
Time line:
0 AD to 600 Christianty has spread by preaching to most of the western world

600 Mo show up. starts out peaceful ends up as a war lord

600 to 750 After mo dies Muslims have conquered the middle east, north Africa, and spain as well as other territories that I forgwt the names of.

It takes the spanish 1200 years or so to drive out the muslin invaders.

Remember the song lyrics "... to the shores of tripoli" The US was fighting muslins who were attacking our ships and our alies.

The responce of Christ's followers after the death of Christ does not have any parallel in Mohammedans followers responce after his death. Let's not forget the perpetual virgins given to those who die for Mo.

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JohnnyDiablo

Christians go to Church? Muslims go to a mosque. He is going to Church?

CBRVFR

mus·lin –noun a cotton fabric made in various degrees of fineness and often printed, woven, or embroidered in patterns, esp. a cotton fabric of plain weave, used for sheets and for a variety of other purposes.

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"...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass."

Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly.

Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant

nedro

O.K. genius, so close your eyes and just listen.

Revvv

That was hillarious. The last thing I expected to read.

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phobe

Same thing dude, you know what I meant.

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Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

Revvv

Nope - nowhere close to being the same thing, but yeah - we know what you mean.

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jose_jimenez

Get on an internet forum and raise hell about Muslims. Then be naive enough to believe that a militant section of that faith represents them all. I think next you should write a novel as you are bound to win the Pulitzer genius.

"Judge not lest ye be judged."

phobe

Ya I know they're totally different. A mosque is where you go to worship and pray and sing hymns and read passages and pass around a collection plate whereas a church is where you... um nevermind.

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Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

RAH-VFR

Hmmm, the N is next to the M on the key board. My stub slipped. I'm typing with a handicap you know. Or is that handy-cap?

Does this mean I can't win a Pulitzer?

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Muskrat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know.

Revvv

I try not to judge anyone, but how much proof does one really need? I can sit here and give proof and debate the issue all day long and there will still be someone telling me I'm wrong.

I am not wrong when I say that today we are seeing progressive and progressing violence from Muslims. I'm not wrong when I claim violence to be in Muslim history, and even in it's foundation.

When one says the sky is blue that isn't a judgement, it's a fact.

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Leelover

Seems like some are missing the point here.
I am asking what the Quaran teaches, not if someone is moderate or fanatical.
Guys, the Bible does not tell any one to spread the Gospel by force. Or take over world governments with force. The Crusades were not carried out from a Biblical mandate, they were instigated by people in power with ambition and agendas. Those same people lorded over the masses that were kept in ignorance of what the Bible actually said. Is is easy to tell people what something says, and what God wants them to do when they have no means of finding out for themselves.
What I want to know regarding my Islam question is if these "radicals" are really representing what true Islam teaches.
Anybody know? Anybody care?

__________________
"The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing." Herger the Joyous

Leelover

Not sure if this directed at me Jose, but if so, pay attention to the question. I am asking if the militant section is representing the true faith.

__________________
"The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing." Herger the Joyous

seamus

Has it always been a root in Islam? Or is your view skewed by your perceptions?

But you're not saying the sky is blue. And you are judging people today for what you think is in the history of Islam.

When you judge an entire religion (or any group of people) based on the vocal minority, you lose sight of what the majority stands for (or doesn't stand for, for that matter).

Islam is no different than Christianity or Judaism in the fact that it's an organized religion. And as an organized religion, it does nothing to further the human race and a whole lot to divide it. All religions have the same basic tenets: Be good and you will be rewarded. They also have one other thing in common: They were created by and "refined" over time by people. People with something to gain. Either political or physical gain.

Here's a fact: The rumor that God punished us by creating different languages is mistranslated. The different languages they talk about are actually different organized religions. It's had a greater divisive effect than the supposed different languages was supposed to have.

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Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant

The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
--- Thucydides

CBRVFR

Are you saying the Hebrew was mistranslated into Greek in the Septuagent? Got a reference? (Not Dan Brown, I hope.)

The story predates Abraham (and thus Judaism) in the Genesis narrative. There were plenty of religions at that time, in various states of organization. It was big business then. As it is today.

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"...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass."

Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly.

Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant

RAH-VFR

But don't feel too smug, it was a very brutal chapter in human history.
In terms of violence no one had a monopoly, both sides commited atrocities, perhaps it was part of the era in whiched they lived. The white boys of Europe killled and burned and raped their enemies just like the muslims. I think the Muslims were more into beheadings and impalings though.


My only point to GT702 was that the crusades were an attempt to stop the muslim invaders not so much an attempt to convert populations. There may have a been a city or two that might have saved itself from destruction if it would have only commited to the correct deity.

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Muskrat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know.