Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 09:31 PM

RAH-VFR posted this on another site. It is absolutely chilling on every level I can think of. This is not people putting words in the Imam's mouths or spinning a passage out of context.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Jetbdude · 01-17-2007, 09:53 PM

Videos no longer available......

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 10:17 PM

The availability comes and goes, due to worldwide demand. Check again later.. they're not being pulled down.

Try to stay with it until the Imam explains how marrying a pre-pubescent girl is OK because the big Mo had a 9 year old wife.

Here are more copies I think it was a 6 part series...

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

phobe · 01-17-2007, 10:24 PM

Wow those Google Adsense folks (pbuh) sure know an opportunity when they see one.

Revvv · 01-17-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

The availability comes and goes, due to worldwide demand. Check again later.. they're not being pulled down.

Try to stay with it until the Imam explains how marrying a pre-pubescent girl is OK because the big Mo had a 9 year old wife.

Here are more copies I think it was a 6 part series...

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

All this was part of the debate I had on FBO with SPDude. He got extremely angry with me because he claimed I had no respect for their so called prophet. Sorry, but I can't have any respect for that.

phobe · 01-17-2007, 10:37 PM

I wonder if there are Muslims sitting in some cave in Pakistan watching videos of evangelical faith healers and laughing their turbans off?

Leelover · 01-17-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I wonder if there are Muslims sitting in some cave in Pakistan watching videos of evangelical faith healers and guffawing their turbans off?

Probably, or at least they should be in many instances.
The issue here is that apparently these teachings are supported by the Qua ran. This is agenda behind Islam, as far as I can see it. This is based on what I have learned from that discussion with spdude.

phobe · 01-17-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leelover

Probably, or atleast they should be in many instances.
The issue here is that apparently these teachings are supported by the Quaran. This is agenda behind Islam, as far as I can see it. This is based on what I have learned from that discussion with spdude.

He's a pretty lousy ambassador.(SPdude) Personally I think Muslims are not really any different than Christians and Jews and, well all people for that matter. Lots of ordinary folks in the moderate middle, and a handful of assholes at the polar extremes. The assholes get the most attention and stereotypes are perpetuated.

I'll admit that I can't back up my opinion on religion with any real theological education, but I don't doubt that there are parts of the Qua-ran that support the violent ideas, but I also don't think that garden-variety moderate Muslims take their book 100% literally... just as the average CHrist-worshipper probably doesn't take their book literally all the way through. (lots of pretty brutal, wrathful bloodshed in there isn't there?)

Haven't there been plenty of Christian kings and leaders (who claimed to have a divine right) through the ages that have taken pre-pubescent wives? And are there not offshoot extremist sects of Christianity a/o Judaism which also advocate this behaviour today? Warren Jeffs and the rest of the FLDS assholes come to mind.

Haven't been able to view the video yet but I'm pretty sure we're seeing a narrow extremist offshoot here.

SheepOfBlue · 01-17-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvv

All this was part of the debate I had on FBO with SPDude. He got extremely angry with me because he claimed I had no respect for their so called prophet. Sorry, but I can't have any respect for that.

I don't, if he truly preached the violence toward others and total disrepect for women that is currently preached.

As far as them laughing at the snake oil selling faith healers I would join them. The big difference is that those people are foul in that they prey on the least amongst us, they do not try to spread their damage (they want your money not for you to be like them).

Leelover · 01-17-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

He's a pretty lousy ambassador.(SPdude) Personally I think Muslims are not really any different than Christians and Jews and, well all people for that matter. Lots of ordinary folks in the moderate middle, and a handful of assholes at the polar extremes. The assholes get the most attention and stereotypes are perpetuated.

I'll admit that I can't back up my opinion on religion with any real theological education, but I don't doubt that there are parts of the Qua-ran that support the violent ideas, but I also don't think that garden-variety moderate Muslims take their book 100% literally... just as the average CHrist-worshipper probably doesn't take their book literally all the way through. (lots of pretty brutal, wrathful bloodshed in there isn't there?)

Haven't there been plenty of Christian kings and leaders (who claimed to have a divine right) through the ages that have taken pre-pubescent wives? And are there not offshoot extremist sects of Christianity a/o Judaism which also advocate this behaviour? Warren Jeffs and the rest of the FLDS assholes come to mind.

Haven't been able to view the video yet but I'm pretty sure we're seeing a narrow extremist offshoot here.

You bring up some very good points here Phobe.
This why I am a big advocate of going to the source book that any religion uses. That said, I have not read the Qua ran yet. but I do think that spdude, and his often referenced SyrianKid, are conveying what their book says. And apparently it teaches that the goal of Islam is to place the world under Islamic rule, by ANY means necessary.
The goal of Biblical Christianity is totally different. Change yourself to be what God meant you to be, using the power He supplies through Christ. And teach others to do the same. Obviously a simplified version, but not much.
The story of the Jews is bloody, but their conquest is of a specific land, not the world, and you have to read the whole story before you can make a judgment.
There will always be those that twist any religious work to suit their own agenda, but what does that work say on it's own?

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 11:25 PM

Phobe, I guess there are a couple of differences. When Rabbi Kahane ( founder of the JDL in the US and the Kach party in Israel) espoused racial hatred, he was debated, criticized, and discredited loudly, in public, by Jews of all stripes.

Fred Phelps and his ilk are despised and criticized publicly by serious Christians.

There is no other religion that I know of that is seeking to suppliment civic law with theocratic law FOR ALL CITIZENS within their borders.

In Europe, there are counties and provinces and countries that will soon be populated with a majority of Muslims. Then, the words of the Imam in that video about the kuffers and the fact that no one would be killed "without reason" when the day comes when the tables are turned.

Put all that together, and you have a very fast growing, aggressive group of people who will not criticize the assholes at the margins.

That's a recipe for deep social upheaval. The shit will hit the fan, hard, and that will be the end of political correctness and tolerance for a while.

Might even happen in Toronto. eh?

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leelover

The story of the Jews is bloody, but their conquest is of a specific land, not the world,

Yes, and there are VERY few Jews that want to go back to the days in which the rabbinical judges ordered stonings.. We just want to be left the fuck alone for the most part. That would be a nice change from the last few millennia.

phobe · 01-17-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leelover

There will always be those that twist any religious work to suit their own agenda, but what does that work say on it's own?

This to me is a "catch-22" contradictory statement. If there will always be people to misinterpret and twist the text to meet their own ends, does the work itself really matter?

Who's to say which interpretation is "correct"?

Leelover · 01-17-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

That would be a nice change from the last few millennia.

Amayn!

Leelover · 01-17-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

This to me is a "catch-22" contradictory statement. If there will always be people to misinterpret and twist the text to meet their own ends, does the work itself really matter?

Who's to say which interpretation is "correct"?

What IT SAYS is what is correct. The ONLY way it can be twisted and used by warped leaders is if people are ignorant of what it says. See "Crusades", and "Spanish Inquisition" for a couple of quick examples.

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leelover

What IT SAYS is what is correct. The ONLY way it can be twisted and used by warped leaders is if people are ignorant of what it says. See "Crusades", and "Spanish Inquisition" for a couple of quick examples.

If you think about it, there are plenty of examples of people - mobs, really, doing exactly what they know to be wrong for reasons other than ignorance.

Do you really think those KKK members who imagine themselves to be good Christians forgot about "thou shalt not kill?"

Elements of nationalism, greed, revenge, retaliation for past atrocities... it never stops. We're just bad examples of social creatures.

phobe · 01-17-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Put all that together, and you have a very fast growing, aggressive group of people who will not criticize the assholes at the margins.

That's a recipe for deep social upheaval. The shit will hit the fan, hard, and that will be the end of political correctness and tolerance for a while.

I think about this all the time. I'm not convinced that the moderates aren't pissed at the extremists but maybe moderates by nature just don't speak up enough... otherwise they wouldn't be moderates. Sure as shit radical Islam is growing rapidly, and yes that scares me. I'd be just as scared of any other religion sweeping the globe in this way.

I wonder if it's an indicator of rampant global poverty? ANyone prepared to draw a correlation between radical Islam (or radical religion for that matter) and poor living conditions? Lots of hungry pissed-off people looking for answers? hmmmmm I've got some other theories on this but I'll keep them to myself for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Might even happen in Toronto. eh?

There are Muslims in Toronto and all over Canada that are campaigning for the right to practice Shariah law in spite of actual Canadian law. Fortunately they remain a small minority. Hell, in the GTA there are probably more Catholic Portuguese and Italians than Muslims. And I don't even need to mention the Chinese.

But let's say the Muslims did eventually become the vast majority; in a free nation, what are we to do? They would have as much right to create and elect a Shariah Party as I have a right to vote for the Conservative party. And why shouldn't they? Yes I believe they're wrong but I only have one vote. I guess all we can do is reproduce more. Islam is sure kicking our ass in that respect.

I'm rambling aren't I?

CBRVFR · 01-17-2007, 11:55 PM

The law and the constitutional rights of Canadian women (for example) can't be abrogated by an extreme religious group, regardless of whether or not they are in the majority.

Or else you all are fucked. I guess you could move to Michigan, we have hockey, automatic weapons and a racetrack, and we speak Canadian, eh!

The beer isn't good, and Canada will no longer be permitted to brew it, so you'll have to let Seamus and I teach you to appreciate sour mash bourbon.

Leelover · 01-18-2007, 12:00 AM

CBRVFR, let me get this straight, are you inviting Phobe to move into your state?
I am thinking nothing good will come of that!

phobe · 01-18-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

The law and the constitutional rights of Canadian women (for example) can't be abrogated by an extreme religious group, regardless of whether or not they are in the majority.

Or else you all are fucked. I guess you could move to Michigan, we have hockey, automatic weapons and a racetrack, and we speak Canadian, eh!

The beer isn't good, and Canada will no longer be permitted to brew it, so you'll have to let Seamus and I teach you to appreciate sour mash bourbon.

But what if the extreme religious group multiplied over a few centuries to the point where the original "Canadians" (whatever the hell that means anymore) were only a few percent of the population... Would their rights and way of life still be preserved?

I'm gonna throw something out there: who else thinks that Socialism created this situation... by creating, fostering, perpetuating and attracting more poverty. Seems to me the more socialist nations are getting hit the hardest. Germany, the UK, France. Canada, a little ways to the right of the Euros is starting to experience the same shit?

Why did I post in here again?

Leelover · 01-18-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

But what if the extreme religious group multiplied over a few centuries to the point where the original "Canadians" (whatever the hell that means anymore) were only a few percent of the population... Would their rights and way of life still be preserved?

I'm gonna throw something out there: who else thinks that Socialism created this situation... by creating, fostering, perpetuating and attracting more poverty. Seems to me the more socialist nations are getting hit the hardest. Germany, the UK, France. Canada, a little ways to the right of the Euros is starting to experience the same shit?

Why did I post in here again?

First question, No.

Second one, keep going that socialism idea is interesting.

Thirdly, you know you love it, baby!

RAH-VFR · 01-18-2007, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Personally I think Muslims are not really any different than Christians and Jews and, well all people for that matter. (lots of pretty brutal, wrathful bloodshed in there isn't there?)
Haven't been able to view the video yet but I'm pretty sure we're seeing a narrow extremist offshoot here.

Phobe, I have to tell you that there is absolutly no compairison between the teachings of Jews and Christians and the Muslims. None.

To a Jew your a gentile.
To a christian, your either someone who accepts Jesus Christ as haveing been crucified and raised from the dead or your one who as the apostle Paul taught is to have the good news explained to.

But to a Muslim you are kuffir (kuffur ?) an infidel. and depending on where they live and what majority the muslins have that can be a very unpleasent situation. Remember American and Canadain citizens have laws and a constituion to govern them. The muslims want shiria ( I can't spell english, let alone arabic) law to govern. That's there goal in England, Europe, even America.

They are a big group so knowing what segment is the "they" that's the hard part. But they know who the infidels are, it's you.

http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2005/07/2999.shtml

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...er_Mosque&only

01-17-2007, 09:31 PM	#1
CBRVFR Godspeed, #20 Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 55 Bike(s): VFR750 SV650 TZ250 Posts: 5,030	Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque RAH-VFR posted this on another site. It is absolutely chilling on every level I can think of. This is not people putting words in the Imam's mouths or spinning a passage out of context. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. __________________ "...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass." Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly. Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant Last edited by CBRVFR; 01-17-2007 at 10:37 PM.

01-17-2007, 09:53 PM	#2
Jetbdude Every man's dream Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 34 Bike(s): 07 600RR Posts: 2,468	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque Videos no longer available......

01-17-2007, 10:17 PM	#3
CBRVFR Godspeed, #20 Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 55 Bike(s): VFR750 SV650 TZ250 Posts: 5,030	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque The availability comes and goes, due to worldwide demand. Check again later.. they're not being pulled down. Try to stay with it until the Imam explains how marrying a pre-pubescent girl is OK because the big Mo had a 9 year old wife. Here are more copies I think it was a 6 part series... YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. __________________ "...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass." Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly. Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant Last edited by CBRVFR; 01-17-2007 at 10:23 PM.

01-17-2007, 10:24 PM	#4
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,634	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque Wow those Google Adsense folks (pbuh) sure know an opportunity when they see one. __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

01-17-2007, 10:37 PM	#6
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,634	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque I wonder if there are Muslims sitting in some cave in Pakistan watching videos of evangelical faith healers and laughing their turbans off? __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc Last edited by phobe; 01-17-2007 at 10:45 PM.

01-17-2007, 11:25 PM	#11
CBRVFR Godspeed, #20 Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 55 Bike(s): VFR750 SV650 TZ250 Posts: 5,030	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque Phobe, I guess there are a couple of differences. When Rabbi Kahane ( founder of the JDL in the US and the Kach party in Israel) espoused racial hatred, he was debated, criticized, and discredited loudly, in public, by Jews of all stripes. Fred Phelps and his ilk are despised and criticized publicly by serious Christians. There is no other religion that I know of that is seeking to suppliment civic law with theocratic law FOR ALL CITIZENS within their borders. In Europe, there are counties and provinces and countries that will soon be populated with a majority of Muslims. Then, the words of the Imam in that video about the kuffers and the fact that no one would be killed "without reason" when the day comes when the tables are turned. Put all that together, and you have a very fast growing, aggressive group of people who will not criticize the assholes at the margins. That's a recipe for deep social upheaval. The shit will hit the fan, hard, and that will be the end of political correctness and tolerance for a while. Might even happen in Toronto. eh? __________________ "...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass." Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly. Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant

01-17-2007, 11:55 PM	#18
CBRVFR Godspeed, #20 Join Date: 12-13-2006 Age: 55 Bike(s): VFR750 SV650 TZ250 Posts: 5,030	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque The law and the constitutional rights of Canadian women (for example) can't be abrogated by an extreme religious group, regardless of whether or not they are in the majority. Or else you all are fucked. I guess you could move to Michigan, we have hockey, automatic weapons and a racetrack, and we speak Canadian, eh! The beer isn't good, and Canada will no longer be permitted to brew it, so you'll have to let Seamus and I teach you to appreciate sour mash bourbon. __________________ "...the TV also never took away the screwdriver and shoved it up the repairman's ass." Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly. Rich Herald, the Gentle Giant

01-18-2007, 12:00 AM	#19
Leelover Remembering RAH-VFR...RIP #20 Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Bike(s): 06 FJR1300 & 01 GSXR 750 Posts: 1,473	Re: Undercover videotape of teachings at a British Mosque CBRVFR, let me get this straight, are you inviting Phobe to move into your state? I am thinking nothing good will come of that! __________________ "The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing." Herger the Joyous