Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech - Page 2

ND4SPD · 04-17-2007, 11:23 AM

For the record - the guy didn't use an assault™ rifle - he used a regular handgun. Those that are talking about renewing the AWB are blowing smoke and using this event to push their agenda.

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Those that are talking about renewing the AWB are blowing smoke and using this event to push their agenda.

And worldwide criticism comes from the worldwide agenda, sponsored by the UN, whose stated agenda is to disarm Americans.

ND4SPD · 04-17-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Police identified the classroom shooter as 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee) of South Korea. There was no indication Tuesday of a possible motive for the attacks.
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.
Cho was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centreville, but living on campus in Harper Residence Hall, the university said.
Two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the guns used in both shootings. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

Va. Tech: Gunman student from S. Korea - Yahoo! News

Seems to me that the guns were likely acquired illegally - which doesn't explain the receipt. And not only that, the kid wasn't a citizen which means he shouldn't have been able to acquire the guns using any legal method.

How does a gun ban do anything to prevent something like this that was clearly done outside of existing laws?

SheepOfBlue · 04-17-2007, 12:05 PM

As to the spur of the moment and gun argument raised:
The Blotter

tigerblade · 04-17-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Va. Tech: Gunman student from S. Korea - Yahoo! News

Seems to me that the guns were likely acquired illegally - which doesn't explain the receipt. And not only that, the kid wasn't a citizen which means he shouldn't have been able to acquire the guns using any legal method.

How does a gun ban do anything to prevent something like this that was clearly done outside of existing laws?

From that article, "As a permanent legal resident of the United States, Cho was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony."

I'm on board with you, just pointing that out.

bda116 · 04-17-2007, 12:41 PM

I think we should start talking about the far more effective option.
If we simply just banned the freedom of speech, this guy would have never been offended or had his poor wittle feelings hurt and never would have felt the urge to go on a rampage.
Let's please address the real problem and ban free speech so nobody gets offended from here on out.

phobe · 04-17-2007, 01:01 PM

Isn't the obvious answer to ban Koreans?

bda116 · 04-17-2007, 01:08 PM

Um, wow. I wonder if a followup story is in the works?
Gun bill targets colleges - Roanoke.com

The University of Utah has been pitching shit fits over the past year or so because they got their asses kicked by the Utah legislature and courts and were forced to toss out their idiotic gun ban on a state-owned campus. Then last night on the news they had some idiot from the U on the news saying how the U of U campus would be safe from this type of thing if they could have their precious gun ban back.

Gotta love morons whose statements aren't questioned by the media.
A simple question about how that gun ban worked out at V.Tech would have been just too hard I guess.

ND4SPD · 04-17-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade

From that article, "As a permanent legal resident of the United States, Cho was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony."

I'm on board with you, just pointing that out.

My bad, I somehow overlooked that.

tigerblade · 04-17-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

My bad, I somehow overlooked that.

Regardless, this guy was obviously mental and could have obtained the guns by other than legal means for sure.

bwhip · 04-17-2007, 04:31 PM

And the US-haters begin to pile on (from Yahoo news)...

Quote:

The shooting spree renewed heated debate over gun control in the United States and prompted foreign critics to rail against a "gun culture" protected by the Western world's most lenient gun-control laws. In Italy, the leftist Il Manifesto newspaper said the shooting was "as American as apple pie."

asiliat · 04-17-2007, 04:41 PM

Let's find out the ethnicity of every person that he shot and banned that race. That way, there'd be no one left to shoot except fellow Koreans.

Whoops, wouldn't work.....

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 04:42 PM

The world does not like US hegemony. It is not surprising they wish to disarm us, taking away the most effective military force in a defensive action on home ground, the armed citizen.

One of the ways to reduce the power of the United States is to reduce the difficulty in conquering our country.

I'll let one of our previous enemies say it best:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Yamamoto

You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.

phobe · 04-17-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

The world does not like US hegemony. It is not surprising they wish to disarm us, taking away the most effective military force in a defensive action on home ground, the armed citizen.

One of the ways to reduce the power of the United States is to reduce the difficulty in conquering our country.
:

Yes the foreign Liberal media wants to invade you.

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 04:49 PM

The liberal foreign media wants us to have no military strength.

bda116 · 04-17-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

The liberal foreign media wants us to have no military strength.

Hell, OUR liberals and their media want us to have no military strength.

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bda116

Hell, OUR liberals and their media want us to have no military strength.

The anti-gun liberals maybe. But I know liberals in the US who are not in favor of gun control.

TAZ · 04-17-2007, 05:24 PM

I am not for banning guns. (Glock 26 in our house, and a 19 on the shopping list.)

However, I would offer that using a gun to kill is very - no, make that VERY - different than using something like a blade or a bat or something. A gun allows the attacker to remain physically and arguably, emotionally detached - at a distance, whereas many other weapons require much closer range and often arm's length engagement. A gun gives an attacker a certain bravado that other, more "intimate" weapons do not.

I think it would have been much more difficult for this guy to have killed so many people with a sword or the like. Maybe he wouldn't have had the guts to get as close as required. Maybe it would have been less intimidating for a group of students to take him down.

Of course, it's a largely moot point. As is obvious to anyone with a brain, because there is no way to ensure that only law enforcement and military would have guns, "gun control" is a pointless waste of time, and would only lead to unintended consequences (only criminals would have guns, etc.) It's a shame that we spend so much time arguing about it. On the other hand, the other extreme - with anyone/everyone potentially carrying - would lead to big problems as well - and possibly worse.

I generally don't like or agree with Jack Cafferty (from CNN). But I just heard him pose a question I think I saw on this very thread, and the implication is one I agree with. Cafferty said: "We'll never know the answer to this, but what if someone besides Cho Seung-Hui had had a gun at Virginia Tech yesterday?" Obviously, the police and SWAT guys (who mainly seemed to be standing around and watching at the moments there were most needed) had guns, but I think the implication is that if one or more people within the building had been armed, the result might have been a little different.

On the gun control question, I don't think there really are any answers. We're not going to make guns go away, and we'll never stop people from going psycho or losing control. One thing I do know - the whole thing is sad.

TAZ · 04-17-2007, 05:39 PM

OMG - this comment, from a doctor?

Quote:

Dr. Joseph Cacioppo of Montgomery Regional Hospital: "There wasn't a shooting victim that didn't have less than three bullet wounds in them."

Took me a minute before I eventually figured that he didn't say what he meant.

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 06:42 PM

Reid attempting to keep the democrats in control on this issue.

Reid warns against rush on gun control - Yahoo! News

If the demos go off on this, it is very possible it will cost them the election and he knows it.

Of course, Fineswine couldn't keep off her soapbox.

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 09:48 PM

Brady's statement:

Quote:

Yesterday, we witnessed America's worst mass shooting on the campus of Virginia Tech. Thirty-three students and faculty were killed, including the gunman. At least fifteen more were wounded.

How many deaths and injuries must we endure before our nation's elected officials act to end gun violence? We must ask our leaders: "What are you going to do about it?" What are you going to do to make our schools, workplaces, and communities safe from gun violence?

President George W. Bush said yesterday that schools should be a place of "safety and sanctuary for every student," but he and other national leaders do nothing to ensure that safety. They provide condolences, and then do nothing to stop future tragedies.

Eight years ago this week, we watched in horror as students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado fled a mass shooting. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. Just seven months ago, five girls were gunned down in a school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

These aren’t isolated incidents. February 12, 2007, Salt Lake City: A teen opens fire in a mall killing five and wounding four. On the same day in Philadelphia: Three men fatally shot and a fourth wounded at a board meeting. January 11, 2007, Indianapolis: A man shoots four fellow employees. The list goes on and on.

There are common threads in all of these tragedies — it is much too easy for the wrong people to get high-powered, deadly weapons and our leaders fail to do anything about the problem.

It is urgent that you email or call your elected officials today.
They must hear that you want action to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Please make as many of these phone calls as you can:

President George W. Bush 202-456-1414
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi 202-225-0100
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid 202-224-5556

The message for all three calls is simple:

It is much too easy for the wrong people to get deadly weapons in this country. It is time for you to take steps to end gun violence to prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech.
If you can't make the calls, you can click here to send an email, which will go to the President, the Speaker, the Majority Leader, as well as your U.S. Senators and Representative. One click will email all six of them.

The Brady Campaign is working nonstop to get the message out that there are solutions to gun violence. We can ban military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips that make it so easy to kill quickly . . . we can require Brady background checks for all gun sales, including at gun shows . . . we can stop large-volume gun sales that supply illegal gun traffickers. These are just some of the steps we can take to make it harder for the wrong people to get guns.

We are building a crescendo of public outcry to ensure that action is taken. We are aggressively rallying support among allies for our solutions. And we need your continued support to make it happen. Please make a contribution now to keep the momentum going. When you do, a generous donor will match your gift.

Gun violence is a solvable problem. We know it won’t be easy. But we can make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns through strong gun laws.

It is time for our nation’s leaders have courage to say "no" to the gun lobby's mantra of any gun, anywhere, at anytime for anyone, while wrapping it in distortions about "freedom" and "liberty."

Americans have the right to live free from the constant fear of gun violence. Please take a moment to forward this email to friends and families.

Thank you for your support.

Sincerely,
Your Friends at StoptheNRA.com

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 09:50 PM

Here's the NRA's statement:

National Rifle Association - NRA Website Gateway

Quote:

----------
Statement From the National Rifle Association

Monday, April 16, 2007

The National Rifle Association joins the entire country in expressing our deepest condolences to the families of Virginia Tech University and everyone else affected by this horrible tragedy.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families.

We will not have further comment until all the facts are known.

--nra--

Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America's oldest civil rights and sportsmen's group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and advocates enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation's leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners,

luvtolean · 04-17-2007, 09:59 PM

Here's an attempted massacre at the Appalachia School of Law where two students with CCWs stopped the gunman just as he started.

This situation lead to attorneys trying to get a law passed allowing CCW permit holders to carry on campus. This is the law I referenced earlier, which was just shot down a bit over two weeks ago, and exactly one day before this animal bought his G17 to kill these people.

Appalachian School of Law shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heavy-Dee · 04-17-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

04-17-2007, 11:23 AM	#31
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech For the record - the guy didn't use an assault™ rifle - he used a regular handgun. Those that are talking about renewing the AWB are blowing smoke and using this event to push their agenda. __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

04-17-2007, 12:05 PM	#34
SheepOfBlue SRA President Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Age: 46 Bike(s): CBR1000RR, RC51, VT500FT Posts: 6,492	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech As to the spur of the moment and gun argument raised: The Blotter __________________ A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

04-17-2007, 12:41 PM	#36
bda116 Done. Join Date: 12-17-2006 Bike(s): . Posts: 2,113	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech I think we should start talking about the far more effective option. If we simply just banned the freedom of speech, this guy would have never been offended or had his poor wittle feelings hurt and never would have felt the urge to go on a rampage. Let's please address the real problem and ban free speech so nobody gets offended from here on out. __________________ "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

04-17-2007, 01:01 PM	#37
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,644	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech Isn't the obvious answer to ban Koreans? __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

04-17-2007, 01:08 PM	#38
bda116 Done. Join Date: 12-17-2006 Bike(s): . Posts: 2,113	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech Um, wow. I wonder if a followup story is in the works? Gun bill targets colleges - Roanoke.com The University of Utah has been pitching shit fits over the past year or so because they got their asses kicked by the Utah legislature and courts and were forced to toss out their idiotic gun ban on a state-owned campus. Then last night on the news they had some idiot from the U on the news saying how the U of U campus would be safe from this type of thing if they could have their precious gun ban back. Gotta love morons whose statements aren't questioned by the media. A simple question about how that gun ban worked out at V.Tech would have been just too hard I guess. __________________ "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

04-17-2007, 04:41 PM	#42
asiliat Join Date: 01-10-2007 Bike(s): 2K 929 Posts: 550	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech Let's find out the ethnicity of every person that he shot and banned that race. That way, there'd be no one left to shoot except fellow Koreans. Whoops, wouldn't work.....

04-17-2007, 04:49 PM	#45
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech The liberal foreign media wants us to have no military strength. __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

04-17-2007, 05:24 PM	#48
TAZ Join Date: 12-21-2006 Location: Middletown, DE Age: 37 Bike(s): ...are awesome Posts: 209	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech I am not for banning guns. (Glock 26 in our house, and a 19 on the shopping list.) However, I would offer that using a gun to kill is very - no, make that VERY - different than using something like a blade or a bat or something. A gun allows the attacker to remain physically and arguably, emotionally detached - at a distance, whereas many other weapons require much closer range and often arm's length engagement. A gun gives an attacker a certain bravado that other, more "intimate" weapons do not. I think it would have been much more difficult for this guy to have killed so many people with a sword or the like. Maybe he wouldn't have had the guts to get as close as required. Maybe it would have been less intimidating for a group of students to take him down. Of course, it's a largely moot point. As is obvious to anyone with a brain, because there is no way to ensure that only law enforcement and military would have guns, "gun control" is a pointless waste of time, and would only lead to unintended consequences (only criminals would have guns, etc.) It's a shame that we spend so much time arguing about it. On the other hand, the other extreme - with anyone/everyone potentially carrying - would lead to big problems as well - and possibly worse. I generally don't like or agree with Jack Cafferty (from CNN). But I just heard him pose a question I think I saw on this very thread, and the implication is one I agree with. Cafferty said: "We'll never know the answer to this, but what if someone besides Cho Seung-Hui had had a gun at Virginia Tech yesterday?" Obviously, the police and SWAT guys (who mainly seemed to be standing around and watching at the moments there were most needed) had guns, but I think the implication is that if one or more people within the building had been armed, the result might have been a little different. On the gun control question, I don't think there really are any answers. We're not going to make guns go away, and we'll never stop people from going psycho or losing control. One thing I do know - the whole thing is sad.

04-17-2007, 06:42 PM	#50
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech Reid attempting to keep the democrats in control on this issue. Reid warns against rush on gun control - Yahoo! News If the demos go off on this, it is very possible it will cost them the election and he knows it. Of course, Fineswine couldn't keep off her soapbox. __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

04-17-2007, 09:59 PM	#53
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	Re: Gun control talks stemming from VA Tech Here's an attempted massacre at the Appalachia School of Law where two students with CCWs stopped the gunman just as he started. This situation lead to attorneys trying to get a law passed allowing CCW permit holders to carry on campus. This is the law I referenced earlier, which was just shot down a bit over two weeks ago, and exactly one day before this animal bought his G17 to kill these people. Appalachian School of Law shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison Last edited by luvtolean; 04-17-2007 at 10:29 PM.