Surveillance revisited

jose_jimenez · 07-09-2008, 10:41 PM

Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill - Yahoo! News

G-ForceJunkie · 07-10-2008, 12:39 AM

"Slip sliding away..."

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill - Yahoo! News

What fucking good is a democrat Congress if they don't stop this stuff?!!

ND4SPD · 07-10-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

What fucking good is a democrat Congress if they don't stop this stuff?!!

What's it matter to them? They're in office and they're all for CHANGE!

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

What's it matter to them? They're in office and they're all for CHANGE!

Yep, Mr. Entitlement voted yes to it. Know thine enemies...

Quote:

Obama ended up voting for the final bill, as did Specter. Feingold voted no.

Purpdust · 07-10-2008, 12:47 PM

So you all going to Drop the "Land of the Free" from your moto?

Is it now just "Home of the brave" or is that slipping away as well?

Purpdust · 07-10-2008, 12:50 PM

Interesting

Quote:

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 12:51 PM

It only hurts as there is a good measure of truth to your posts.

ND4SPD · 07-10-2008, 01:48 PM

Old news but very relevant. ABC News

ND4SPD · 07-10-2008, 03:51 PM

Clinton: Why I Voted No On FISA - Politics on The Huffington Post

figment · 07-10-2008, 04:23 PM

what I like about this is I dont have to worry about subpoenas anymore or our liability with lawful intercept and the way I understand this law is it applies to situations where at least one leg of the conversation always has to be foreign.

Purpdust · 07-10-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

.. where at least one leg of the conversation always has to be foreign.

Does that mean that all conversations to uses a satalite for a portion of the trip is Foreign and can be intercepted?

figment · 07-10-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

Does that mean that all conversations to uses a satalite for a portion of the trip is Foreign and can be intercepted?

not they way I understand it. Communications with all end-points that are domestic are excluded.

Today, they have to call us for a trap or other request, we have to go through an internal corporate "legality" process which has to work within their time-frames or they lose the "opportunity". Once we get the go ahead from regulatory and legal we can procede. We have to pay for all the equipment, overhead and assistance up front and then hope to get some compensation later.

As it stands now, the carrier does a lot of the diligence in lawful intercept enforcment from my perspective. I dont like having that responsibility.

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

Today, they have to call us for a trap or other request, we have to go through an internal corporate "legality" process which has to work within their time-frames or they lose the "opportunity". Once we get the go ahead from regulatory and legal we can procede. We have to pay for all the equipment, overhead and assistance up front and then hope to get some compensation later.

The airwaves your company is using belong to everyone, and a significant portion of the telephony network has been paid for by taxpayers. Your company is granted the privelage of using that bandwidth with the understanding that it is to everyone's benefit.

If YOU do not have responsibility for what is happening on your network, then nobody does. That is not good for us, the people who assiduously grant the privelage your company profits from.

Quote:

As it stands now, the carrier does a lot of the diligence in lawful intercept enforcment from my perspective. I dont like having that responsibility.

I'm sure you don't. And I'm sure your lobbyists and campaign contributors made a point of getting an excellent ROI on buying this vote.

It is still not good for us citizens who are neither running for office nor trying to minimize legal exposure to our businesses.

EDIT: BTW figment, I absolutely do not blame phone companies for what they were trying to do here, provided the influence they used was of the legal variety. It is the duty of a company to try and be as profitable as possible, and minimize risk to their business(es).

I am pissed at the public officials who we elect to speak for the people's best interests, and when necessary, wield a hammer in our favor.

jose_jimenez · 07-10-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

As it stands now, the carrier does a lot of the diligence in lawful intercept enforcment from my perspective. I dont like having that responsibility.

I used to have to handle the subpoenas and hated dealing with those fuckers. Everything had to go through legal. It was always a clusterfuck.

figment · 07-10-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

The airwaves your company is using belong to everyone, and a significant portion of the telephony network has been paid for by taxpayers...

it's interesting you specify airwaves... as in radiated communications. What about conductive communications and fiber optics? I'm not aware of any tax payer money paying for one dime of my network. Which BTW is not even operational yet. I'm now at a start-up

scary times here!

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

it's interesting you specify airwaves... as in radiated communications. What about conductive communications and fiber optics?

Tax paying Americans have been paying companies, and historically granting special privelages, to invest in these infrastructure technologies since day 1.

Doesn't everybody know that?

figment · 07-10-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Doesn't everybody know that?

nope, not me unless you're saying because I'm a taxpayer and have a mobile terminal, or I'm buying stocks in AT&T that I'm supporting a communications company, then yes company s need revenue and profit is required to be EBITDA positive. But the direction I understood you were going was taxes paid for a significant portion of the infrastructure of Telcos and that's not the case by any means.

ND4SPD · 07-10-2008, 08:06 PM

And the ACLU is already on it...

Bush signs spy bill and draws lawsuit - Yahoo! News

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

nope, not me unless you're saying because I'm a taxpayer and have a mobile terminal, or I'm buying stocks in AT&T that I'm supporting a communications company, then yes company s need revenue and profit is required to be EBITDA positive. But the direction I understood you were going was taxes paid for a significant portion of the infrastructure of Telcos and that's not the case by any means.

I'd be surprised if anyone knows how many hundreds of billions have been given to telcos through various subsidies.

Here's addressing the tens of billions "Universal Service Subsidy" by Cato:

Universal Service: The New Telecommunications Entitlements and Taxes

Here's a nice quote from that one:

Quote:

One analyst estimates total subsidies in the telecommunications market at $184 per year for every U.S. family

luvtolean · 07-10-2008, 08:56 PM

Maybe we don't want to talk about the $200 BILLION of OUR MONEY, the telcos stole over broadband either...

I, Cringely . The Pulpit . The $200 Billion Rip-Off | PBS

I said hundreds of billions in subsidies, what I really meant was trillions...

figment · 07-11-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I said hundreds of billions in subsidies, what I really meant was trillions...

I wanna know where my measly billions are

Bealeons and beeeelliiions!

luvtolean · 07-11-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

I wanna know where my measly billions are

Bealeons and beeeelliiions!

and

07-09-2008, 10:41 PM	#1
jose_jimenez Not Sure's Legal Representation Join Date: 01-05-2007 Bike(s): Hurricane Posts: 1,983	Surveillance revisited Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill - Yahoo! News

07-10-2008, 12:47 PM	#6
Purpdust Join Date: 12-19-2006 Location: AB-Canada/Rome Italy Age: 33 Bike(s): gsxr 750 Posts: 1,458	So you all going to Drop the "Land of the Free" from your moto? Is it now just "Home of the brave" or is that slipping away as well? __________________ GSXR 750 - Track CRF450X - Dirt CRF100F - Soon to be a Mini Motard

07-10-2008, 12:51 PM	#8
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	It only hurts as there is a good measure of truth to your posts. __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

07-10-2008, 01:48 PM	#9
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	Old news but very relevant. ABC News __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

07-10-2008, 03:51 PM	#10
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	Clinton: Why I Voted No On FISA - Politics on The Huffington Post __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

07-10-2008, 12:39 AM	#2
G-ForceJunkie Who's driving? Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: Valencia, CA Bike(s): BMW GS1150 ADV, DRZ400 Posts: 629	"Slip sliding away..."

07-10-2008, 04:23 PM	#11
figment riki-tik! Join Date: 02-03-2007 Location: St. Paul, Texas Age: 50 Bike(s): Yamaha WR250X Posts: 908	what I like about this is I dont have to worry about subpoenas anymore or our liability with lawful intercept and the way I understand this law is it applies to situations where at least one leg of the conversation always has to be foreign. __________________ "Einstein, don't tell God what to do with His dice". - Bohr P = \| an \| 2

07-10-2008, 08:06 PM	#19
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	And the ACLU is already on it... Bush signs spy bill and draws lawsuit - Yahoo! News __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

07-10-2008, 08:56 PM	#21
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,396	Maybe we don't want to talk about the $200 BILLION of OUR MONEY, the telcos stole over broadband either... I, Cringely . The Pulpit . The $200 Billion Rip-Off \| PBS I said hundreds of billions in subsidies, what I really meant was trillions... __________________ The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison Last edited by luvtolean; 07-10-2008 at 09:02 PM.

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