Racing Photography Progress

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 11:10 AM

I've been doing more and more photography at our club races. I'm enjoying it, trying to improve my skills, and happy to share the results with my friends in the club (and I really consider just about everyone in the club my friend).

The last few rounds I've been putting up some galleries, sorted by race, to give the racers a chance to see the whole race unfold via photos, and to select any shots they want high-res versions of. Here's an example:
MoM Round Six - Novice GTO

At the rider's meeting on Sunday morning at the start of race day, the club President called me up to the front of the group as though I was in trouble or something. Uh-oh.

He mentioned the club's appreciation for the photos I'd been taking and sharing, and presented me a thank you card signed by dozens of grateful racers. He also said that the club would be paying for my entry fees for the next round, which was very cool.

I got lots of really good ones this time, including this little sequence everyone asked about:

nhfirefighter13 · 09-09-2008, 11:17 AM

Nice sequence there, Brian!

Aren't there any "regular" photographers there during the races?

ND4SPD · 09-09-2008, 11:19 AM

Where's the next shot where they punch each other out?

Nice work!

SheepOfBlue · 09-09-2008, 11:21 AM

The photographers union will be visiting soon

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 11:22 AM

Thanks! We also had an epic battle for the King of the Mountain class, the premier class in our club, between #1 plate holder Aaron Clark, uber-fast former #1 plate holder Shane Turpin, and Josh Graham. These guys battled hard lap after lap.

With just a couple of laps to go, they came up on a lapper (an expert from Washington with a yellow plate from that series). As they all powered up the straight, Clark's rear wheel tangled with the front wheel of the lapper, and down he went at 130+ right at the start/finish line! Somehow everyone else stayed upright, but obviously the race had to be red-flagged. Quite dramatic!

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Nice sequence there, Brian!

Aren't there any "regular" photographers there during the races?

Hardly ever. Seems to be more of a track day thing. And I think any that were have been run off by the clown who has been giving away photos.

I'm actually thinking of working out a deal with the club for next season where the club pays me a bit to provide the service as a club benefit. Racers are always broke and can't afford to buy photos anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Where's the next shot where they punch each other out?

Nice work!

Thanks. I thought that might happen, but they shook hands and played nice, and raced later in the day without incident.

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 11:28 AM

A few more I liked from Sunday:

nhfirefighter13 · 09-09-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

Hardly ever. Seems to be more of a track day thing. And I think any that were have been run off by the clown who has been giving away photos.

I'm actually thinking of working out a deal with the club for next season where the club pays me a bit to provide the service as a club benefit. Racers are always broke and can't afford to buy photos anyway.

Yeah, working out a deal with the club is a good idea. Working out a deal with anyone instead of giving away free pics is a good idea.
From a photographer's point of view, freebies make things incredibly difficult on me. You just can't compete with free and most consumers don't understand the time, money and effort it takes to produce good images. Therefore, they do not see the "value" or reason, if you will, they should have to pay more than a dollar or two for a photograph.

The other side of that is that it's very difficult for you to go from giving out images for free to actually charging for them.

When I started doing this, I gave out pics to a certain group of people who knew a lot of other people. When those other people saw them and then found out it was me taking the shots, they asked how much.

To this day, there are still some people (very few) that get freebies from me.

If there are no regular pro's there, I'd call it a no harm, no foul situation but I'd try to get something for your time and effort...plus it'll provide $$$ for more glass.

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Yeah, working out a deal with the club is a good idea. Working out a deal with anyone instead of giving away free pics is a good idea.
From a photographer's point of view, freebies make things incredibly difficult on me. You just can't compete with free and most consumers don't understand the time, money and effort it takes to produce good images. Therefore, they do not see the "value" or reason, if you will, they should have to pay more than a dollar or two for a photograph.

The other side of that is that it's very difficult for you to go from giving out images for free to actually charging for them.

When I started doing this, I gave out pics to a certain group of people who knew a lot of other people. When those other people saw them and then found out it was me taking the shots, they asked how much.

To this day, there are still some people (very few) that get freebies from me.

If there are no regular pro's there, I'd call it a no harm, no foul situation but I'd try to get something for your time and effort...plus it'll provide $$$ for more glass.

I understand completely. I didn't want to charge before, especially since a lot of my images were blurry and not very consistent. On the other hand, I didn't want to mess it up for the pros that were trying to make a buck out there. Like you said, the photos definitely have a value and the equipment is very costly.

At the race weekends, there has only been one semi-pro there occasionally, and he was just there during practice and not the actual races. The need has definitely been there, and I haven't really run anyone off.

The other side of it is that I kind of like having the option of shooting or not shooting, whereas if I cut a deal than I'm obligated to do so. I'm trying to decide if I want that obligation for next year. It's tricky. I enjoy taking the pics, love the reaction people have to the great ones. But if I do it for fun and give them away to my friends, then a pro potentially gets hurt. I need to think about it over the off-season.

nhfirefighter13 · 09-09-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

The other side of it is that I kind of like having the option of shooting or not shooting, whereas if I cut a deal than I'm obligated to do so.

Make it part of the deal that you're not obligated to do every race. Make it every so many races you'll be there or maybe even just x number of races per season.

Maybe even better, make it so much $$$ for each race that you shoot. Then have them request the ones that you shoot at. Any other race would be on your own time.

bwhip · 09-09-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Make it part of the deal that you're not obligated to do every race. Make it every so many races you'll be there or maybe even just x number of races per season.

Maybe even better, make it so much $$$ for each race that you shoot. Then have them request the ones that you shoot at. Any other race would be on your own time.

Good ideas. Thanks.

Shenders1 · 09-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

I've been doing more and more photography at our club races. I'm enjoying it, trying to improve my skills, and happy to share the results with my friends in the club (and I really consider just about everyone in the club my friend).

The last few rounds I've been putting up some galleries, sorted by race, to give the racers a chance to see the whole race unfold via photos, and to select any shots they want high-res versions of. Here's an example:
MoM Round Six - Novice GTO

At the rider's meeting on Sunday morning at the start of race day, the club President called me up to the front of the group as though I was in trouble or something. Uh-oh.

He mentioned the club's appreciation for the photos I'd been taking and sharing, and presented me a thank you card signed by dozens of grateful racers. He also said that the club would be paying for my entry fees for the next round, which was very cool.

I got lots of really good ones this time, including this little sequence everyone asked about:

Very nice shots - These belong on the 'crash pages' of RRW.

TAZ · 09-10-2008, 05:41 PM

Awesome pics, BWhip!
It's very impressive that you've picked up the action photography so quickly and are getting such good shots. The exposures look pretty good; I'm curious about what exposure mode you're using and how you're determining the proper exposure (i.e. are you metering something, or using the LCD display to judge exposure, or relying on the histogram, etc...?)

On one hand, I am fan of the idea of having the club pay directly for your services. Assuming they don't have money to burn, they can pass on the expense to the racers in the form of a modest increase in entry fees.

I have for a long time wanted to do this with the motocross clubs I cover. For years I was been photographing every rider anyway, but was averaging only 30-50 sales per race. Considering most races have 500 or more entries, I was essentially taking photos of ten or more riders for every one rider who bought something. My preference would be to have the club pay me something like $5 or $10 per entry, for which I'd provide a free 8x10 or image file on CD to every rider. With this approach (smaller margin but higher volume), my average day (gross sales-wise) would at least double. It would also require a lot more work, but my risk would be eliminated, and I could afford to seriously scale up my operation (more shooters, more printing capacity, etc.) However, I can't imagine that the clubs would be willing to jack up their entry prices $10 per head. There would have to be something in it for them; the "added benefit" concept just doesn't stand up against the worry of declining membership in the face of higher entry fees.

Thinking about your specifics: On that kind of scale - what, 50 riders(?), I'd think you'd need to get at least $10 per head. Is it worth the drive and your time and the wear and tear on your equipment to make $500? And would the club be willing and able to pull the trigger on that kind of increase?

On the flip side of the "club pays you directly" argument are two points:
1. The riders would surely resent any price hike, and this may cause you trouble.
2. If your agreement with the club evaporated, the riders may have already been conditioned to expect photos "for free". As NH implied, you should avoid things that reduce the perceived value of the stuff you produce.

Lots to think about. Feel free to fire away with Q's; I'll help in any way I can!

bwhip · 09-10-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAZ

Awesome pics, BWhip!
It's very impressive that you've picked up the action photography so quickly and are getting such good shots. The exposures look pretty good; I'm curious about what exposure mode you're using and how you're determining the proper exposure (i.e. are you metering something, or using the LCD display to judge exposure, or relying on the histogram, etc...?)

On one hand, I am fan of the idea of having the club pay directly for your services. Assuming they don't have money to burn, they can pass on the expense to the racers in the form of a modest increase in entry fees.

I have for a long time wanted to do this with the motocross clubs I cover. For years I was been photographing every rider anyway, but was averaging only 30-50 sales per race. Considering most races have 500 or more entries, I was essentially taking photos of ten or more riders for every one rider who bought something. My preference would be to have the club pay me something like $5 or $10 per entry, for which I'd provide a free 8x10 or image file on CD to every rider. With this approach (smaller margin but higher volume), my average day (gross sales-wise) would at least double. It would also require a lot more work, but my risk would be eliminated, and I could afford to seriously scale up my operation (more shooters, more printing capacity, etc.) However, I can't imagine that the clubs would be willing to jack up their entry prices $10 per head. There would have to be something in it for them; the "added benefit" concept just doesn't stand up against the worry of declining membership in the face of higher entry fees.

Thinking about your specifics: On that kind of scale - what, 50 riders(?), I'd think you'd need to get at least $10 per head. Is it worth the drive and your time and the wear and tear on your equipment to make $500? And would the club be willing and able to pull the trigger on that kind of increase?

On the flip side of the "club pays you directly" argument are two points:
1. The riders would surely resent any price hike, and this may cause you trouble.
2. If your agreement with the club evaporated, the riders may have already been conditioned to expect photos "for free". As NH implied, you should avoid things that reduce the perceived value of the stuff you produce.

Lots to think about. Feel free to fire away with Q's; I'll help in any way I can!

Thanks for your guidance. Very helpful thoughts for sure.

Re: exposure, I'm generally using shutter-priority mode, with ISO 100, and either AWB or adjusting the white balance to sunlight mode, depending on time of day, etc. On some of the final pics I'll add some fill light in Photoshop along with some other minor tweaking.

TAZ · 09-10-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

Re: exposure, I'm generally using shutter-priority mode, with ISO 100...

That's great for panning shots, when you want a specific shutter speed; and using a low ISO setting will prevent the aperture from getting too small (creating unnecessary depth-of-field and increasing chances that you'll see any dust/particles on the sensor...)

I'd recommend aperture-priority mode and higher ISO settings when doing head-on or other stop-action kinds of shots, since you only need a "fast" shutter speed, as opposed to a very specific one. When using Av mode you have direct control of the aperture, so you can decide whether you want shallow or great depth-of-field. For stop-action kinds of shots when you're not shooting with a wide open aperture, you may find that you need a higher/more sensitive ISO setting to get a sufficient shutter speed. Don't sweat it; the 1DM3 will easily do upwards of ISO 1000 without significant/bothersome noise. I regularly shoot action stuff at ISO 800...

bwhip · 09-17-2008, 02:32 PM

Holy crap, I'm published! Page 48 of the new Cycle News:

Cycle News Online Edition 38

ND4SPD · 09-17-2008, 02:38 PM

Can I have your autograph? Congrats Brian, that's awesome!

TAZ · 09-17-2008, 02:45 PM

Sweet! That didn't take long, eh?
Shame that stuff doesn't pay very well! I doubt one could buy a new memory card for what those rags pay.

Buy a couple copies, laminate the story with your photo, and start a scrapbook/portfolio of all your published work!

Congrats!

nhfirefighter13 · 09-17-2008, 06:07 PM

Sweet! Makes you giggle a bit doesn't it?
Did they contact you for that or did they just snag it from somewhere?

bwhip · 09-17-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Sweet! Makes you giggle a bit doesn't it?
Did they contact you for that or did they just snag it from somewhere?

For sure! The guy who wrote the article did it in the form of a press release for the mag. He's one of our racers, and he asked me for permission to include the pic. It wasn't the one I would have chosen, but what the heck!

09-09-2008, 11:17 AM	#2
nhfirefighter13 Whales are fast! Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Concord, NH Age: 33 Bike(s): The Mighty Nissan! Posts: 3,069 Images: 58	Nice sequence there, Brian! Aren't there any "regular" photographers there during the races? __________________ http://www.kezerphotography.com "If thou hast not a sword, sell thy cloak and buy one." -Luke 22:36

09-09-2008, 11:19 AM	#3
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	Where's the next shot where they punch each other out? Nice work! __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

09-09-2008, 11:21 AM	#4
SheepOfBlue SRA President Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Age: 46 Bike(s): CBR1000RR, RC51, VT500FT Posts: 6,492	The photographers union will be visiting soon __________________ A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

09-09-2008, 11:22 AM	#5
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,940	Thanks! We also had an epic battle for the King of the Mountain class, the premier class in our club, between #1 plate holder Aaron Clark, uber-fast former #1 plate holder Shane Turpin, and Josh Graham. These guys battled hard lap after lap. With just a couple of laps to go, they came up on a lapper (an expert from Washington with a yellow plate from that series). As they all powered up the straight, Clark's rear wheel tangled with the front wheel of the lapper, and down he went at 130+ right at the start/finish line! Somehow everyone else stayed upright, but obviously the race had to be red-flagged. Quite dramatic! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

09-09-2008, 11:28 AM	#7
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,940	A few more I liked from Sunday: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

09-09-2008, 11:10 AM	#1
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,940	Racing Photography Progress I've been doing more and more photography at our club races. I'm enjoying it, trying to improve my skills, and happy to share the results with my friends in the club (and I really consider just about everyone in the club my friend). The last few rounds I've been putting up some galleries, sorted by race, to give the racers a chance to see the whole race unfold via photos, and to select any shots they want high-res versions of. Here's an example: MoM Round Six - Novice GTO At the rider's meeting on Sunday morning at the start of race day, the club President called me up to the front of the group as though I was in trouble or something. Uh-oh. He mentioned the club's appreciation for the photos I'd been taking and sharing, and presented me a thank you card signed by dozens of grateful racers. He also said that the club would be paying for my entry fees for the next round, which was very cool. I got lots of really good ones this time, including this little sequence everyone asked about: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

09-10-2008, 05:41 PM	#13
TAZ Join Date: 12-21-2006 Location: Middletown, DE Age: 37 Bike(s): ...are awesome Posts: 209	Awesome pics, BWhip! It's very impressive that you've picked up the action photography so quickly and are getting such good shots. The exposures look pretty good; I'm curious about what exposure mode you're using and how you're determining the proper exposure (i.e. are you metering something, or using the LCD display to judge exposure, or relying on the histogram, etc...?) On one hand, I am fan of the idea of having the club pay directly for your services. Assuming they don't have money to burn, they can pass on the expense to the racers in the form of a modest increase in entry fees. I have for a long time wanted to do this with the motocross clubs I cover. For years I was been photographing every rider anyway, but was averaging only 30-50 sales per race. Considering most races have 500 or more entries, I was essentially taking photos of ten or more riders for every one rider who bought something. My preference would be to have the club pay me something like $5 or $10 per entry, for which I'd provide a free 8x10 or image file on CD to every rider. With this approach (smaller margin but higher volume), my average day (gross sales-wise) would at least double. It would also require a lot more work, but my risk would be eliminated, and I could afford to seriously scale up my operation (more shooters, more printing capacity, etc.) However, I can't imagine that the clubs would be willing to jack up their entry prices $10 per head. There would have to be something in it for them; the "added benefit" concept just doesn't stand up against the worry of declining membership in the face of higher entry fees. Thinking about your specifics: On that kind of scale - what, 50 riders(?), I'd think you'd need to get at least $10 per head. Is it worth the drive and your time and the wear and tear on your equipment to make $500? And would the club be willing and able to pull the trigger on that kind of increase? On the flip side of the "club pays you directly" argument are two points: 1. The riders would surely resent any price hike, and this may cause you trouble. 2. If your agreement with the club evaporated, the riders may have already been conditioned to expect photos "for free". As NH implied, you should avoid things that reduce the perceived value of the stuff you produce. Lots to think about. Feel free to fire away with Q's; I'll help in any way I can!

09-17-2008, 02:32 PM	#16
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,940	Holy crap, I'm published! Page 48 of the new Cycle News: Cycle News Online Edition 38 __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

09-17-2008, 02:38 PM	#17
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,138 Images: 25	Can I have your autograph? Congrats Brian, that's awesome! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

09-17-2008, 02:45 PM	#18
TAZ Join Date: 12-21-2006 Location: Middletown, DE Age: 37 Bike(s): ...are awesome Posts: 209	Sweet! That didn't take long, eh? Shame that stuff doesn't pay very well! I doubt one could buy a new memory card for what those rags pay. Buy a couple copies, laminate the story with your photo, and start a scrapbook/portfolio of all your published work! Congrats!

09-17-2008, 06:07 PM	#19
nhfirefighter13 Whales are fast! Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Concord, NH Age: 33 Bike(s): The Mighty Nissan! Posts: 3,069 Images: 58	Sweet! Makes you giggle a bit doesn't it? Did they contact you for that or did they just snag it from somewhere? __________________ http://www.kezerphotography.com "If thou hast not a sword, sell thy cloak and buy one." -Luke 22:36