Thread: Need help with street/track tire(DOT Race?)

I would highly recommend the Michelin Pilot Power 2CTs, or just the standard Pilot Powers. They are DOTs that have a great combination of long life and amazing grip. I've raced with them, used them at Freddie Spencer school, and have been extremely impressed with how well they grip, even in the wet.

I run Qualifiers now and I have heard that the PP have a similar grip level. I ran PP at Schwantz School and I slid them a few times although I am impressed with their grip. A friend of mine runs Pirelli SuperCorsa...I think...which from what I understand is mostly a track tire, but can be run on the street.

IMO, get a spare set of rims and mount the track rubber to them. The street will wear the DOT race tires and wear them on the centers, which will hinder the turn in ability . As far as which tire...........very debatable question. I am happy with the Dunlops, been on the 208 and 209's last year and just tried the New NTEC.......WOW. Great tire IMO.
But any DOT tire will do you fine as long as you like them. It is all personal preference really.

Originally Posted by Hammer

IMO, get a spare set of rims and mount the track rubber to them. The street will wear the DOT race tires and wear them on the centers, which will hinder the turn in ability.

+1 on that. If your bike is pulling double duty (street and track) and you are really pushing those tires hard on the track, reality is its time to get some "track only" tires for your track riding. And a different set for the road.

Thats a good idea but I wanted to change tires this year and since we only have about 2 more months or so of riding weather it would hinder my budget to buy rims within that time frame as well. But I will consider it. I have heard about the NTechs...can you guys give me your opinion on the tires you have tried. Wear rate, grip, feedback...etc. Thanks.

Have you had your suspension set up?

Diablo Corsa IIIs can do double-duty very well.

Originally Posted by smoothrideronli

Thats a good idea but I wanted to change tires this year and since we only have about 2 more months or so of riding weather it would hinder my budget to buy rims within that time frame as well. But I will consider it. I have heard about the NTechs...can you guys give me your opinion on the tires you have tried. Wear rate, grip, feedback...etc. Thanks.

You are wanting an answer like this:

The XXXXXXX tire is superb, it can do both on the street and track. The street wear will not affect the tire due to a quad compound tire that resists flattening of the apex of the tire, and will hold grip onthe track as well as any slick out there.

It just does not exist............................................. .. yet.

If you are slipping on a street tire right now, IMO you need to move on to DOT's or slicks. The compounds are totally different. Track tires are sticky and work better at a high heat range, street tires are harder and work at lower temps better than track rubber and last longer. As said before, for what you are wanting, Qualifiers, Pilot Powers, etc.... will work. But not like you are wanting them to. They will slip and slide a bit. plus you are on a liter bike which contridutes to the slippage factor.

Another option is to get a set of race takeoffs and change them out just before a track day and then afterwards change back to street rubber.

not tryingto be sarcastic here, really.

When you say you're starting to slide the rear and push the front, is this on new tires or tires that had some street miles on them already when you went to the track?

In my experience, the DOT races are DOT in name only. You'd be trading a little bit of sliding out of corners on the track for a little sliding out of corners on the street where the tires are running cooler.

For dual purpose tires, I'd rather put a Corsa III on the track and slide it a little bit than put a DOT race on the street and not be able to tell when it's going to do something "abnormal" because the tires have cooled while riding. I'm assuming, of course, that you ummm...ride...umm...(what's another word for aggressively?) on the street. Spirited, that's the word I was looking for.

I'm with Hammer on the tire change prior to the track. If you can't get a spare set of rims off ebay or something, I'd play nice with the nearest trustworthy shop and see if they could cut you a deal on tire changing service because you'd be swapping tires back and forth over the course of 4 or 5 days.

Or pick up a NoMar setup or even one of the Harbor Freight specials. Or go in with a couple friends to pick up a shared NoMar setup. Over time, it pays for itself. Picked mine up in 06 and it's already about 1/2 paid off in tire changes.

:+1: I'm with the big guy on all of that.

There are several tires that are designed for '70% trackdays and 30% street use', and those should be fine for your purposes. The downside would be reduced mileage.

But the tires we used at the Schwantz school are STREET tires. Granted they're on 600s rather than literbikes, but they worked impressively. If you're pushing the front and sliding the back - and you're not racer-fast - you might be better off having your suspension upgraded/optimized for your weight, or you might want to think carefully about your lines on the track, or get smoother on that throttle.

If I take a bad line, I can push/slide both ends of my Race-tech/Ohlins suspended SV on hot slicks. The next lap, I can be more precise and rail through there with no drama at a faster speed.

I ripped the whole right edge of a Pirelli DOT race tire off with my 954 by getting greedy on the throttle on a too-tight line. (I can't tell you how I got away without a highside - just lucky.)

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Have you had your suspension set up?

Yes...the best I could. I redid the front with Ohlins internals and had in sprung for my weight...sag and everything set. Rear is stock and adjusted as best possible with what I was given.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Diablo Corsa IIIs can do double-duty very well.

I remember reading that the 04s dont take to Pirelli profiles too well...

Originally Posted by Hammer

You are wanting an answer like this:



It just does not exist............................................. .. yet.

If you are slipping on a street tire right now, IMO you need to move on to DOT's or slicks. The compounds are totally different. Track tires are sticky and work better at a high heat range, street tires are harder and work at lower temps better than track rubber and last longer. As said before, for what you are wanting, Qualifiers, Pilot Powers, etc.... will work. But not like you are wanting them to. They will slip and slide a bit. plus you are on a liter bike which contridutes to the slippage factor.

Another option is to get a set of race takeoffs and change them out just before a track day and then afterwards change back to street rubber.

not tryingto be sarcastic here, really.

Hammer not sarcastic...ok what universe is this.... Seriously I slide the Qualifiers and I want to go beyond them but not to full race slicks. I also dont have a budget where I can change tires every two days...maybe every three but you know what I mean. The answer I am really looking for is...I tried brand xxxx and they have great grip, but they wear too quickly for me....or I tried brand y and they give great feedback but they turn in to quickly...etc....

Originally Posted by seamus

When you say you're starting to slide the rear and push the front, is this on new tires or tires that had some street miles on them already when you went to the track?

In my experience, the DOT races are DOT in name only. You'd be trading a little bit of sliding out of corners on the track for a little sliding out of corners on the street where the tires are running cooler.

For dual purpose tires, I'd rather put a Corsa III on the track and slide it a little bit than put a DOT race on the street and not be able to tell when it's going to do something "abnormal" because the tires have cooled while riding. I'm assuming, of course, that you ummm...ride...umm...(what's another word for aggressively?) on the street. Spirited, that's the word I was looking for.

I'm with Hammer on the tire change prior to the track. If you can't get a spare set of rims off ebay or something, I'd play nice with the nearest trustworthy shop and see if they could cut you a deal on tire changing service because you'd be swapping tires back and forth over the course of 4 or 5 days.

Or pick up a NoMar setup or even one of the Harbor Freight specials. Or go in with a couple friends to pick up a shared NoMar setup. Over time, it pays for itself. Picked mine up in 06 and it's already about 1/2 paid off in tire changes.

Tires were fairly new...I am not sure if I am ready for something like a Nomar...at least not this year. I do ride somewhat....spirited...

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

:+1: I'm with the big guy on all of that.

There are several tires that are designed for '70% trackdays and 30% street use', and those should be fine for your purposes. The downside would be reduced mileage.

But the tires we used at the Schwantz school are STREET tires. Granted they're on 600s rather than literbikes, but they worked impressively. If you're pushing the front and sliding the back - and you're not racer-fast - you might be better off having your suspension upgraded/optimized for your weight, or you might want to think carefully about your lines on the track, or get smoother on that throttle.

If I take a bad line, I can push/slide both ends of my Race-tech/Ohlins suspended SV on hot slicks. The next lap, I can be more precise and rail through there with no drama at a faster speed.

I ripped the whole right edge of a Pirelli DOT race tire off with my 954 by getting greedy on the throttle on a too-tight line. (I can't tell you how I got away without a highside - just lucky.)

Yes I have slid the PP at Schwantz a few times. My front suspension has been upgraded and I have not touched the rear. I think I am pretty smooth (no pun intended) and dont think changing lines will help in this situation...I have tried many different lines on different tracks and I still slide the tires.

Can you give me some examples of those 70/30 tires.

I heard that expression from a tire rep at a show, and I seem to remember Metzeler/Pirelli used to use that actual phrase in their ads. Not now, though. The tires that were being referred to are now identified as 'supersport or hypersport' tires. In the case of Pirelli, they had the same construction as the DOT race tires, but more and different rubber compounding so it warmed up faster and lasted longer... at the expense of weight and ultimate grip.

http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/catalo...zone_compound_

Pirelli Corsa III versus Diablo Rosso

Michelin Pilot Power 2CT

Pilot Power 2CT versus Pilot Power


METZELER - Catalogue - Sportec M3

Metzeler Sportech M3 versus M1

Dunlop has the Qualifiers, but I guess you don't like them much.

I'd like to know how you're deciding how much air to put into these.

I try to follow the advice that indicated that a 20% increase in air pressure after a good session indicates the right amount of pressure - If you don't get the full 20%, the tires have too much air, if you get more than 20%, they have too little. 1 lb makes a pretty significant difference on the Dunlop slicks, if you have too much pressure. I haven't experienced much downside with the Dunlops if you're a little under inflated, but I have light bikes. The Pirellis Supercorsa Pros used to squirm like hell if they were even a bit underinflated.

Originally Posted by smoothrideronli

I remember reading that the 04s dont take to Pirelli profiles too well...

My experience: I've been riding Corsas since my first tire change in Germany when the stock 'stones were more expensive (didn't realize how good I had it there with Pirelli prices).

I like them much better although my initial impression was that they seemed heavier and slower to turn than the stock tires. It didn't take long before I loved them.

I'm sure personal preferences rule here but I found that the bike responded very well to lengthening the wheelbase. Very stable, smooth controlled turn in, holds a line like a slot car.

After I finish off this current set of Corsa IIIs, I have a set of 190/55 (not a typo, it's 190/55) I'm going to test.

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

I heard that expression from a tire rep at a show, and I seem to remember Metzeler/Pirelli used to use that actual phrase in their ads. Not now, though. The tires that were being referred to are now identified as 'supersport or hypersport' tires. In the case of Pirelli, they had the same construction as the DOT race tires, but more and different rubber compounding so it warmed up faster and lasted longer... at the expense of weight and ultimate grip.

http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/catalo...zone_compound_

Pirelli Corsa III versus Diablo Rosso

Michelin Pilot Power 2CT

Pilot Power 2CT versus Pilot Power


METZELER - Catalogue - Sportec M3

Metzeler Sportech M3 versus M1

Dunlop has the Qualifiers, but I guess you don't like them much.

I'd like to know how you're deciding how much air to put into these.

I try to follow the advice that indicated that a 20% increase in air pressure after a good session indicates the right amount of pressure - If you don't get the full 20%, the tires have too much air, if you get more than 20%, they have too little. 1 lb makes a pretty significant difference on the Dunlop slicks, if you have too much pressure. I haven't experienced much downside with the Dunlops if you're a little under inflated, but I have light bikes. The Pirellis Supercorsa Pros used to squirm like hell if they were even a bit underinflated.

Actually I love the Qualifiers...they give good grip most of the time and excellent feedback. When they slide while its not too predicatable its controllable. As far as tire pressue I start at a benchmark of about 30 psi cold and adjust from there. I only adjust pressure on cold tires.

I need suggestions...again...Pirelli Supercorsa, Metlzer Racetech, Dunlop D2?? (whatever number they are up to) or Bridgestone BT??. Opinions please, good and bad. Thanks in advance.

Get a set of rims as stated then put slicks on them. Keep the stockers handy for rain use. As to life I get about the same out of a set of BT002ST as I do the Soft slicks. Actually the slicks might go a hair farther. Grip wise there is no comparison other than that nice soft release of a Bridgestone

I have two bikes...one will be more set up for track duty but will be street legal and ridden on the street on occassion. Have you ridden the tires mentioned above besides the Bridgestones?

I've run the Pirelli Diablo Corsas(not the Supercorsa) and the Bridgestone BT002s and they were both fine tires. I liked the Pirelli better.

Originally Posted by smoothrideronli

I have two bikes...one will be more set up for track duty but will be street legal and ridden on the street on occassion. Have you ridden the tires mentioned above besides the Bridgestones?

Over the years on the RC I have run:
Dunlop: Qualifiers, D208, D209
Pirelli: Diablo Corsa
Bridgestone: BT002ST, Slicks
All track use zero or close to that on the street.

On the RR:
Pirelli: Diablo Corsa, Corsa
Dunlop: Qualifier
Avon: Viper Sport
100% street use

On the Ascot whatever I can find in the correct size 100% street with some dirt

Dunlop Ntec. Amazing tire. Great grip especially at full lean and hard on the throttle.

I am hearing such good things about the Pirellis but I agree with you on the price. i have also heard good things about the Dunlops. Hammer how are the Dunlops when they break loose? Are they progressive, sudden? Also how is there warm up?

NOT HAMMER! But,

I found that the Qualifiers warmed a bit slow but the 208 and 209 warmed up fairly quick. I am not in the frozen tundra like you but I only ran warmers with the 208/209 about 1/4 of the time, not at all in June/July/August. I have not run NTec's. Of all the tires I have ridden Qualifiers warmed the slowest. I admit that the Bstone Slicks were an experience at Grattan during the parade laps since I had not had warmers on but I always run them now even if just as insulated blankets midday.

I just got off the phone with the Dunlop rep. He suggested D209s unless I plan on running lap records then go with the 211s. Since I a few seconds of Spies time at Road Atlanta (about 200 seconds) I will try the 209s. I assume those are Sheep approved.