RedRider

Works for me...

QuikMike

+1...I'm all for it...

but let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute: what is the opposition's stance to Right to Carry? why are they opposing this? Why would some states and lawmakers NOT pass this law?

ConqSoft

Because guns are bad, and laws will keep bad people from having guns and using them for bad purposes.

Just like signs stop the bad guys. Signs only keep those of us who legally carry from being able to protect ourselves in those places. Which is why I avoid places that don't allow me to carry.

jose_jimenez

That video is pretty funny Conq.

"My buddy, my buddy, I take him everywhere......I go"
Sig P239 stays in the glove or on my person 100% if I'm not at home.

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luvtolean

I believe the majority of people who are against the right to carry are basically against the private ownership of firearms period.

There are many arguments. If you start at the Second, opponents to private firearms ownership correctly point out the Second is not incorporated into the 14th as a right clearly applying to all citizens.

The reason is we simply haven't had a trial case. The Second has not been thoroughly examined and vetted. It hadn't been necessary until the last couple of decades. Really, pop culture in the US until the late 60s, when restrictive gun laws started being passed on generally racist premises, were laws passed that started limiting private firearms selling/trading and ownership. It was just generally accepted by people that guns were not bad, and anyone could own them.

With the complete ban in DC in 76, and especially the in-your-face Clinton Federal AWB of 94, the stage was set. It is now only a matter of time until we find out what the Second means.

Current goings on are delving deep into this, and next year, we may have a SCOTUS decision on our hands in the Parker case that gets us well down that path. (though it won't be a full incorporation case, that will come later)

The other general argument you hear is borne out of fear of not understanding it. Ranging from you don't need to carry unless you're paranoid, to being paranoid a person who is carrying may go nuts and has the immediate access to a powerful weapon.

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The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

SheepOfBlue

Neither was the 1st so that means that states can censor the press

You are correct on the terrible reasons that GOVERNMENT restricted gun use. Yet another illustration that the 2nd was to all the people to protect themselves from the GOVERNMENT if needed rather than to protect the government.

Remember the right is to keep and arm bears but it is wiser to arm sheep (less prone to eating people)

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luvtolean

Actually it is VERY clearly incorporated, though Bush and the Republicans did recently shit all over it.

Incorporation Chart

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The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

RedRider

On a side note, how would you like your pediatrician asking your kids about your guns? I know I'd be looking for a new doctor.

Should your doctor ask your child if you own a gun?

FOXNews.com - Guns Don't Kill Kids, Irresponsible Adults With Guns Do - Opinion

luvtolean

Yeah, lots of guys in Cali have had this happen with their doctor.

I'd file a complaint with the AMA at the very least. (and change docs of course)

__________________
The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

ConqSoft

Teach your kid to answer "Yes, and he likes to shoot nosy doctors."

bda116

The Supremes have a long history of shitting all over the Constitution, and I don't see them stopping now.
The actual intention and meaning of the Constitution should have been clear enough that a Bill of Rights wasn't actually even necessary as the Constitution clearly states that all powers not given the Federal gubmint by the Constitution was left to the individual States. Thankfully, the ratifiers of the Constitution had enough foresight to draft the Bill, but not enough foresight to put even more checks on the Supremes, who constantly legislate illegally from the bench.
The Constitution was fucked when The Supremes started assuming more power than they were ever intended to have.

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luvtolean

They wanted to include the Bill from the get go, but the Constitution would not have been ratified if proponents of the Bill insisted.

I believe SCOTUS will decide Parker well based on historical precedent and intent. (The DC circuit court sure did!) But you never know...

__________________
The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

bda116

Yes, some of the ratifiers did, but the Federalists did not. It was ratified by nine states without, but the Republicans of the day forced it into place before Virginia, and thus New York would ratify.
There were certain items, like the original abolition of slavery that had to be left off in order to get the southern states to ratify, though.

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"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

CBRVFR

Actually The Supremes were fucked when Florence Ballard was replaced by Cindy Birdsong.

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Our own Mr.2nd Amendment, explaining the difference. Perfectly.

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luvtolean

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The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

bda116

I love you.
Yes, in that kind of way.

__________________
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

slickwill

In my Physical Diagnosis class, the class where we learn what questions to ask, where to hit with the little hammer doodad, and how to pump up the blood pressure thingamajig, etc, we were taught to ask that question. Not only to every child but to every adult male who is at risk for depression, and that we should then counsel them that their home would be a safer place if without them and that they should get rid of any firearms as soon as possible. I about crapped a brick when that first came up and it still infuriates me that it was presented to us as a "medical" fact.

I like that. I'm going to teach my kids to say that.


Here is the crappy part. Say "Bill" comes into my office and I diagnose him with clinical depression. Now say I treat him for two months and one day I get a call saying he committed suicide with his own gun. If I don't have documented in his chart that I asked him if he owns a gun, and counseled him that he should remove guns from his home due to his condition, then I am at risk for a medical malpractice suit because that is considered "standard of care" for depression.

It is a question that I will never ask.

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SheepOfBlue

Cannot they be impeached? When recent decisions referenced foriegn governments as a basis I believe that was easy grounds for impeachment (the basis AND their oath is to uphold the constitution not align with europe). However that will not happen as all three branches are in gross violation of their oaths.

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A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

SomeStrangeGuy

In this very PC world, can't you just say "Don't use the gun while you're depressed Bill" and escape the malpractice BS?

Besides, what if Bill gets upset you took his gun and decides to ride the lightning? Now there is a malpractice suit.



p.s. On the plus side, Bill probably wouldn't really be able to testify either way.

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SheepOfBlue

"at risk for depression" why not set the bar lower by anyone claiming to have never farted. Everyone is at risk to be depressed and have at one time or another actually been depressed. It is called life. These same people have also been happy

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A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

slickwill

I can't actually "take" Bill's gun. I am just supposed to ask if he has a gun and then counsel him about getting rid of it, locking it up, etc. It is the medical chart that testifies whether or not I asked the question. Yes, I could just give Bill a general, "depression and guns shouldn't mix" speech and then document that in the chart. But to know that Bill had a gun I would have to ask him...and it isn't any of my business or any other doctor's business.

I don't have as big of a problem with asking a depression pt about guns as I do with the pediatrician asking a kid if their parent owns a gun. That is the real load of crap.

__________________
If it has wheels, I've crashed it, and some things that don't skis, snowmobile, card board box, giant tube, sentra, dirtbike, lawn tractor, grandmas bread tray, kayak, canoe, raft, bicycle, waterskis, tobaggan, horse, ATV, Now my CBR (women)

luvtolean

Agreed.

It's one thing if you're treating a patient for a problem that could lead to suicide.

Another to a child, where stats show a far more useful, though not politically motivated, question would be "Do you, or any of your friends have a swimming pool?"

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The facility and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which are governments are most liable.- James Madison

slickwill

Exactly, I might use that question for an argument to our dean. You could also ask if the neighbors have a pit bull, if a canal runs through your backyard, or "do you wear your motorcycle helmet?" But "does daddy have a gun" is going to elicit a very interesting reply from my children if they are ever asked.

__________________
If it has wheels, I've crashed it, and some things that don't skis, snowmobile, card board box, giant tube, sentra, dirtbike, lawn tractor, grandmas bread tray, kayak, canoe, raft, bicycle, waterskis, tobaggan, horse, ATV, Now my CBR (women)

G-ForceJunkie

"Do you have rope in you garage? Razor blades in your utility knife? Big bottle of OTC drugs from Wallmart? Tall buildings nearby?" I wonder why they focus in on guns...as suicides go, I got to imagine its got a failure rate greater than hanging or leaping off a building