Thread: Sicko, the Doctor, and the Pharmaceutical Companies

Maybe. Maybe most people don't want to see his movie, however meritorious some think it is. You won't really know until the DVD rentals are tallied.

It would be typical of Moore to claim some kind of conspiracy if his movie wasn't performing, just as it would be typical for powerful interests to try to do what they could to blunt or suppress the impact of his criticism. Welcome to the human condition.

It wouldn't surprise me if his audience is shrinking. His shrill, self-righteous, pompous, self-promoting, egoistic manner and his morbid eagerness to exploit the pain of others for monetary gain is pretty tiring, even when he actually has a point.

Health care in the US is great...if you can afford it.

Pharmaceutical companies, doctors, HMOs etc are all getting stupidly rich. Everyone knows this. So what's the big deal?

Michael Moore is an ass.

It makes me raise and eyebrow if it is true that they suddenly reduced him number of theatres from 1600 to 400.

See, Moore can't leave well enough alone.

The plot of this story is good enough. But then he has to go through his own machinations which are effectively lies as well, making him just as sleazy as any doctor who's purchasing an interest to control the spin of a story.

The dumbshit goes to Cuba on a political stunt for supposed free medical care?

How is that not just as manipulative of his audience as the good doctor?

Let's go find some of the non-party affiliated people in Cuba and check on their medical care. (I'd say let's go talk to the poor in Cuba, but most are poor there...)

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

His shrill, self-righteous, pompous, self-promoting, egoistic manner and his morbid eagerness to exploit the pain of others for monetary gain is pretty tiring, even when he actually has a point.

to that!

I believe the health care industry in this country needs some shaking up.

Of course, I believe it needs to start with individuals taking responsibility for their own health, rather than doing stupid crap to their bodies and then running to an MD to fix it with the newest pill.

Still, there is an incredibly lucrative industry that feeds on treating the symptoms of all the new "diseases". And all the shadiness that trickles on down through the whole system.

It is sad that we get this dickhead as our "Champion of Truth and Justice", or whatever he thinks of himself as.

Frivilous law suits are making sure that both health care costs are too high and that many doctors aren't making any money. Malpractice insurance is so high it is scaring many new doctors away from certain fields.

Ask T1 about it.

Originally Posted by DoctorFell

My sister dropped her pursuit of a career in pediatrics in exchange for a different field for that very reason. Beyond that, my endocrinologist was ready to quit her profession over the rising cost.

And that really sucks because the Doc's are the ones who really do the work and make the difference. The vast majority of them work their asses off to help people.

Originally Posted by DoctorFell

My sister dropped her pursuit of a career in pediatrics in exchange for a different field for that very reason. Beyond that, my endocrinologist was ready to quit her profession over the rising cost.

My brother made it to the nurse level, but decided he'd rather stay a paramedic/firefighter. Better money, better hours, no malpractice, more respect, etc.
He really considered going as far as physician assistant as the liabilities aren't as great as those doctors and surgeons face, but lawyers are starting to go after them as well. After looking at it all and experiencing med school it gave him a deeper love for his job.

A really good friend of mine is a general thoracic surgeon that is a very good and respected trauma guy. He used to make good money until about ten years ago. Then all hell broke loose. He HATED working the hospital so much that he built his own private surgical facility that will only accept certain patients instead of seeing every idiot that hits the ER for a nose bleed, doesn't pay and then files suit against them.

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

Have you seen the film? The people he took to Cuba to get healthcare were volunteers in the 9/11 horror that the government refused healthcare too. A couple of those guys were completely fukt, deserved healthcare, and got it via Cuban doctors.

Nope. Honestly, I refuse to pay to see anything he does as I don't want to endorse him in any way.

I'm only referring to the "stunt", which was also widely reported in the media when he did it.

It's anti-American, pro-Cuba politicing bullshit by the Cuban gov't that Moore played right in to, and is using to deceive people.

Don't you think he could've done the same thing in Communist Russia during the Cold War or Nazi Germany in the 30's? Moore simply gave the Cuban government a great opportunity to propagandize, of course they offered up doctors. I'm sure they were carefully chosen as well.

I wonder if all the construction workers in Cuba have access to their best doctors....funny, we didn't see Mike following them around.

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

Well you haven't seen the film so it's hard to take anything you say as relevant regarding it...

...even if what you say is completely true.

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

Well you haven't seen the film so it's hard to take anything you say as relevant regarding it. If it was anything it was positive towards their health care and nothing more. Like I said, I was glad that he helped the people he took down there. Some of them couldn't afford their prescriptions here, which were pennies on the dollar there, others were denied health care because they were a volunteer on 9/11 and not an employee of the city, state, or Federal government. All of them received advice, medicine, were diagnosed, etc, something they couldn't get here and something positive in a negative world. I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be when someone gets help.

Bullshit.

I don't have to see the film. Especially when you keep re-confirming everything I say.

The Cuban government gave a filmmaker well known to criticize the US government, which is well aligned with their goals, the full propaganda treatment. And this is supposed to "prove", of course only to the millions of enlightened souls who lap up Moore's tripe as no matter how silly, how great Cuban medicine is, and how cold and inhuman ours is?

That's just plain dumb.

Why didn't he go to a country with truly good socialized healthcare, which third world Cuba does not have, you know, like Germany? Ever think about that?

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

You guys can think john edwards for that too...

Yeah, pretty much every dime in his bank account (prior to becoming a politician that accepted money from special interest groups) came from ambulance chasing.

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

...All of them received advice, medicine, were diagnosed, etc, something they couldn't get here and something positive in a negative world. I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be when someone gets help.

I'm not going to see the film either because when I ask myself the normal critical thinking question before reading a book or seeing a movie about something like this:

"What does this person have to gain from me agreeing with him/her?"

I come to one conclusion. Money. And that's it. Why isn't Moore reporting on anything other than the last biggest "issue"? Because it won't make him any money.

Why are Cubans dying trying to travel 80 miles across an ocean when their free health care is so great? If it's so damn good there, why risk your and your family's lives to come here where it obviously sucks so bad?
If it's so damn good in Cuba, why hasn't Moore moved there and taken his family with him? Oh, that's right. He'd disappear in less time than it would take to come up with the idea for a sh**ty, government bashing movie there.

If what he says is so true, we need to increase sales of Moore's films or airdrop millions of the DVDs all across Central and South America and get the truth out. "Hey guys, you've got it wrong. The real riches can be found in Cuba. Go build some boats." That's got to be cheaper than building a 700 mile long fence. No that won't work because we'll also have to airdrop millions of DVD players too. I guess if we wait another 6 months, the prices of DVD players should drop a little more and it'll be financially advantageous.

Moore makes movies for suckers who aren't smart enough to think for themselves or think critically about what others are saying to them. He's just like all the so-called Americans who can sit around and bash everything and talk about all the problems yet will you ever hear a single solution come out of his mouth? Nope. He doesn't have any. Are there issues here in the US? Yes. Do we need to make some changes? Sure. Is anything going to change due to Moore? Nope. I don't like Bono either but at least he puts his money and effort in attempting to come up with a solution.

He is right about only one thing...he has proven making films for ignorant people, who prefer not to think about the motive of the person making it, is a very lucrative and profitable business.

Opnions cannot be right or wrong. They can be based on very flawed logic, but I do not believe mine on the subject of Moore is.

I discredit him because his movies are a mocumentaries.

They are nothing but political stunts designed to make the maker very wealthy.

They are very very good at this.

It has nothing to do with whether I do or do not agree with the message, which incidentally you haven't asked, and I haven't mentioned.

As I said before, he pollutes his message with bullshit...like going to Cuba. Cutting interviews, same as the MSM, to the point the message is twisted to what he's looking for...things like this.

Ultimately, Moore is not true to his supposed investigations. And unfortunately, in the process, he costs Americans everytime he makes a movie.

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

LMAO. I would say his films aren't for the thick. I think for myself and will make my own determinations about everything. I was right about this administration, right about the war being a bunch of lies so I would say I'm batting a higher average than many here. This film talks about our health care system, which definitely needs to change. Suckers are people who blindly follow their government.

He does give a solution, socialized medicine. You guys should just say "I don't like the fucking guy even if he is right."

Suckers are people who blindly follow anyone. And there's one born every minute. Not every conspiracy is a government conspiracy but that's what he'd like you to believe. And by your own words, you do.

Moore's obvious intent is to make money. He's not trying to solve a problem and that's why I don't like him. If he were exposing an issue, then attempting to do something about it, I would be more inclined to listen to him. But he's not. He's exposing an issue, creating emotional attachment to it by tying it to other emotional events, raking in some cash, then shoving burgers down his throat to get even fatter.

If he were even using his movies (they are NOT documentaries) to expose an issue and funneling proceeds to non-profit groups who were trying to solve the issue, I'd think about listening. But he doesn't do that either. And hence, my distaste for him.

He has you right where he wants you. Instead of focusing some actual effort on doing something, you're sitting here arguing how he's right instead of arguing on an actual idea you have to make it right. All you've said so far is "I gave Moore $20 for making a self-righteous movie and I'll parrot everything he said about our healthcare system being messed up."

So, what's Moore's fix for the problem? Socialized medicine. What does that mean? It's not a black/white answer. You can't write [HR739485] Socialized Medicine. [/HR739485] And if socialized medicine is so damn great, why do people in Britain complain about their health care system (for which they're heavily taxed) and why is Germany (even more heavily taxed) leaning towards more privatization and actually starting to charge co-pays for some procedures? And don't get me started on the Czech Republic (WTF is up with their taxes?!) where I was treated for a bad cold and ended up with the flu.

Don't forget that doctors under a socialized medicine practice become gov't workers and if you want to keep the best, you'll have to pay the best. The same people who bitch for socialized medicine will be the same people who bitch that they don't want to pay more taxes but that's exactly what it will take to pay for it:
Germany - 19% VAT, ~41% income tax
England - 17.5% VAT, ~40% income tax (oldfogey or proto can verify for me)
Czech Republic - 22% VAT, ~39% income tax

Me personally, I don't have what I believe is a fully effective solution, but I'm working on it. I do believe it lies somewhere between socialized medicine and fully privatized healthcare. I do know that I won't have to make a sh*ty, fake documentary to promote a non-solution to complete it though.

Originally Posted by seamus

Moore's obvious intent is to make money. He's not trying to solve a problem and that's why I don't like him.

Right. Exactly my problem with the MSM on most issues. I do not discrinminate, both Fox and CNN are generally not worth the film they use.

As soon as the networks figured out the news could be a profit center, with a bit of spin, that was the end. They certainly don't live up to the bargain struck long ago, solid objective reporting as a service to the public, as part of the cost of using/owning the bandwidth they're allowed.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

........As soon as the networks figured out the news could be a profit center, with a bit of spin, that was the end..

Mostly on-topic, that very thing is being (force-fed) "taught" at idiotic gubmint indoctirnation institutions, better known as public schools.
NBC2 News Online - High school journalism students graded on ad revenue=
Half the grade somes from how many ads they sell. Not from their journalism, but how their writing generates sales.
Fine for an advertisement/sales course, but shitty for a journalism course.