Thread: FYI: Big Ass Toyota recall - more sticky gas pedals. Jan 2010

Unless I am misunderstanding how they work, Corollas and Camrys are one thing, but the Prius is a whole different animal. "Neutral" is a system state input to the computers, not a mechanical gear selection.

This story is more than a bit suspect though...

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Unless I am misunderstanding how they work, Corollas and Camrys are one thing, but the Prius is a whole different animal. "Neutral" is a system state input to the computers, not a mechanical gear selection.

This story is more than a bit suspect though...

I've heard something like that also. I heard there's some controls that won't let the tranny shift into neutral or reverse until the car is slowed to almost a crawl, I think it was 5mph I heard.


and for what its worth the Toyota service writer I talked to also told me my truck doesn't have a recall when the Toyota website specifically says mine has the floormat recall.

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

I've heard something like that also. I heard there's some controls that won't let the tranny shift into neutral or reverse until the car is slowed to almost a crawl, I think it was 5mph I heard.

You don't need a computer for that...

I'm talking about the ability to decouple the drive engine/motor from the drivetrain with the gear selector (which in all manual, and most automatic transmissions will work no matter what the computer is doing), rather than feeding an input to a computer.

My dad and I were discussing some of the questionable testimony the other day and both arrived at the conclusion that the only way the stories are plausible is if the the brakes are brake-by-wire. As long as there is a direct mechanical link between brake pedal and master cylinder then I don't buy it at all. If they are brake-by-wire then I don't want one.

FWIW, that even if there was a direct mechanical link I don't think the brakes would stop the car. If the accelerator is truly sticking open and causing the car to accelerate to 100+mph and keep accelerating, I really think the brakes would slow down the overall process to a certain point but more than likely the brake pads would go up in a puff of smoke a few seconds after the brake fluid boiled within a few minutes of such pressure, rotors would warp, etc. Modern day cars are built much better than they were 10-15 years ago but I can't see a Corolla or a Camry having anchors that could deal with that kind of extreme condition. Maybe a Lexus...

There's bound to be some pennies saved in materials that can quickly slow/stop a car from an 80mph cruise vs materials that can do it consistently for extended periods. Surely there's a reason all cars don't come equipped with Brembo hardware. Having someone stand on the brake pedal trying to slow the car while the thing is trying to accelerate hard does not fall under that criteria, methinks. If the driver is smart enough to throw the gear selector to neutral this wouldn't apply, but as we've seen, not many mentioned in the media seem to be smart enough to do that. Chalk it up to sensationalism perhaps.

I'll put my tin foil hat back on now.

If there is still any question - the prius is not a mechanical connection type of system - that's what makes them so great for the environment.

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

FWIW, that even if there was a direct mechanical link I don't think the brakes would stop the car. If the accelerator is truly sticking open and causing the car to accelerate to 100+mph and keep accelerating, I really think the brakes would slow down the overall process to a certain point but more than likely the brake pads would go up in a puff of smoke a few seconds after the brake fluid boiled within a few minutes of such pressure, rotors would warp, etc. Modern day cars are built much better than they were 10-15 years ago but I can't see a Corolla or a Camry having anchors that could deal with that kind of extreme condition. Maybe a Lexus...

Been tested, but you already intuitively know it*, the brakes are much more than a match for the engine in most cars (and bikes):

How To Deal With Unintended Acceleration - Tech Dept. - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver


* Think of how long it takes to accelerate to 50 MPH, and then how long to stop from 50...

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

FWIW, that even if there was a direct mechanical link I don't think the brakes would stop the car. If the accelerator is truly sticking open and causing the car to accelerate to 100+mph and keep accelerating, I really think the brakes would slow down the overall process to a certain point but more than likely the brake pads would go up in a puff of smoke a few seconds after the brake fluid boiled within a few minutes of such pressure, rotors would warp, etc. Modern day cars are built much better than they were 10-15 years ago but I can't see a Corolla or a Camry having anchors that could deal with that kind of extreme condition. Maybe a Lexus...

There's bound to be some pennies saved in materials that can quickly slow/stop a car from an 80mph cruise vs materials that can do it consistently for extended periods. Surely there's a reason all cars don't come equipped with Brembo hardware. Having someone stand on the brake pedal trying to slow the car while the thing is trying to accelerate hard does not fall under that criteria, methinks. If the driver is smart enough to throw the gear selector to neutral this wouldn't apply, but as we've seen, not many mentioned in the media seem to be smart enough to do that. Chalk it up to sensationalism perhaps.

I'll put my tin foil hat back on now.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Been tested, but you already intuitively know it*, the brakes are much more than a match for the engine in most cars (and bikes):

How To Deal With Unintended Acceleration - Tech Dept. - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver


* Think of how long it takes to accelerate to 50 MPH, and then how long to stop from 50...

Yep, that's page 34 of the March issue. If you'd read the thread you'd note that I referred to this test over a month ago

Note that the 190ft full throttle stop in the Camry is less distance than a Ford Taurus stops with a closed throttle.

Originally Posted by slickwill

Yep, that's page 34 of the March issue. If you'd read the thread you'd note that I referred to this test over a month ago

Note that the 190ft full throttle stop in the Camry is less distance than a Ford Taurus stops with a closed throttle.

And there's the whole emergency brake thing ...

But ND4SPD does make a good point about components. Regardless, I still a lot lot of this is hype. Not all, but some.
\unwrinkles tin foil hat and places it on head.

Originally Posted by SomeStrangeGuy

They don't even have any interesting incentives, maybe they're already flat broke or planning to be?

They just started running commercials around here offering 0% financing on all models.

I may see a Venza or Tundra in my future

Originally Posted by JH41

They just started running commercials around here offering 0% financing on all models.

I may see a Venza or Tundra in my future

I saw that commercial a couple days ago and noticed that it included Tundra. If we weren't still thinking about buying a house I'd be doing some serious shopping.

So with this latest Prius guy - when they finally stopped the car, with the trooper's car in front of the Prius, did someone reach in and take out the key? How did they tow it away - wait for the gas / batteries to deplete?

I'm not a smart man but I can lift heavy things. That said, this whole scenario just doesn't smell right to this uneducated observer.

Originally Posted by eyauch

That was my understanding of it. At least from every "mechanical connection" vehicle I have ever owned.

I did get my recall notice in the mail for the Tundra last week. Is there a reason in anyones mind on the forum why I should not have the gas pedal recall work done? Just curious what people think about it. This is separate from the floormat issue recall which I also received in the mail.

Get it done, you'll regret it if someone got injured - however unlikely that is. Also, selling it would be much easier.

For sure...

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

So with this latest Prius guy - when they finally stopped the car, with the trooper's car in front of the Prius, did someone reach in and take out the key? How did they tow it away - wait for the gas / batteries to deplete?

I'm not a smart man but I can lift heavy things. That said, this whole scenario just doesn't smell right to this uneducated observer.

They were just playing the audio of the guy and he was talking about how he was going "80 maybe 81mph, and how scared he was." I made a comment about how last time I was driving in Cali 80mph would have put me in the slow lane. My wife said, "he's in Prius, he's probably never gone 80 before."

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You don't need a computer for that...

I'm talking about the ability to decouple the drive engine/motor from the drivetrain with the gear selector (which in all manual, and most automatic transmissions will work no matter what the computer is doing), rather than feeding an input to a computer.

Originally Posted by SomeStrangeGuy

If there is still any question - the prius is not a mechanical connection type of system - that's what makes them so great for the environment.

and not having a mechanical connection is why the Prius will not go into reverse and possibly neutral (I forget exactly what I heard) even if the shifter is physically in Reverse (or neutral) if the car is still moving at any normal rate of speed.

Originally Posted by slickwill

They were just playing the audio of the guy and he was talking about how he was going "80 maybe 81mph, and how scared he was." I made a comment about how last time I was driving in Cali 80mph would have put me in the slow lane. My wife said, "he's in Prius, he's probably never gone 80 before."

Abso-lutely. We were all laughing at work when we heard the audio clip of the guy almost going into tears about how scary doing 80 was. The freeway he was on is a 80 MPH minimum or get tailgated kinda place. If he was that scared doing 80, then he is one of the annoying ass "my shit doesn't stink and I am going to do 55 in the fast lane" assholes we all hate down here. Especially when they get into the carpool lane for buying their hybrid.

Here's a quote from the latest Prius driver, Sikes

"Neibert told Sikes after the CHP caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip"

How do you flip a car by putting it in nuetral?

Article here: Runaway Prius driver: Brakes were 'almost burned' - Yahoo! Finance=

How do these fucking people get licenses?

While discussing this at work one night, I was utterly f@cking amazed at how many people did not know you could just put the car in neutral. It was a foreign concept to everyone who never drove a stick shift.

Its scary really.

Originally Posted by davef

Here's a quote from the latest Prius driver, Sikes

"Neibert told Sikes after the CHP caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip"

How do you flip a car by putting it in nuetral?

In the 9-1-1 call the operator kept asking him to put the car in neutral. He would take long pauses like he couldnt hear her or something. IIRC some of his responses were something like.... "I cant, the engine just revs" or "No, I am trying to operate the car here." I call bullshit.

There is another lady 15 minutes from me claiming to have the same issue coming out of a driveway. She ended up crashing into a 3 foot high wall bordering someone else's property.

Originally Posted by G-ForceJunkie

Did Bankrupt Runaway Prius Driver Fake "Unintended Acceleration?" - Toyota Recall - Jalopnik

I can tell you not a single person I know here in San Diego thinks its true. Scared about doing 80 on the 8 in east county? Refusing to put it in neutral? Come on.

Ahhh, so the penny finally dropped...this scrutiny is the thin end of the wedge in justifying, and eventually requiring black box recorders...

Originally Posted by Baketech

Ahhh, so the penny finally dropped...this scrutiny is the thin end of the wedge in justifying, and eventually requiring black box recorders...

We were talking about this at work yesterday. This will finally be the opening the insurance companies have been waiting for to ram through some kind of legislation requiring them "for our safety".

Then where does it stop. Does it record where you've been? For how long? Who gets access to that data? What process do they have to go through to get it? Do you get a 5th amendment right to refuse giving it up? Can you erase the memory yourself?

The implications get scary very fast... but of course the same "what do you have to hide" people who thought the patriot act was a great achievement in American security will roll over and accept it.

Originally Posted by navydevildoc

We were talking about this at work yesterday. This will finally be the opening the insurance companies have been waiting for to ram through some kind of legislation requiring them "for our safety".

Then where does it stop. Does it record where you've been? For how long? Who gets access to that data? What process do they have to go through to get it? Do you get a 5th amendment right to refuse giving it up? Can you erase the memory yourself?

The implications get scary very fast... but of course the same "what do you have to hide" people who thought the patriot act was a great achievement in American security will roll over and accept it.

I'll end up refusing to drive anything but my '77 Chevy until they legislate it out of existance.

If your car has an airbag it already has a black box with several seconds of pre-event data that can be accessed for forensic reasons. Your GPS, phone, or OnStar can be accessed in a court for the same purpose. It is very unlikely your insurance company could ever get to it unless there is reason to document something that could already affect your rates - a 150 MPH ticket, an accident. On the other hand, the data might even absolve you.

Don't tell my truck driver, but I'm having Ryder put a tracker in my truck in a few days so I can tell him how much overtime I have the honor of paying him to order and eat a couple of pizzas a day.

It will also tell me where he drove, how fast he was going, if there were any times at which he stopped quickly, how long he was stationary, and whether his protestations that 'I-75 traffic was terrible' have any factual basis. As if.

I can access this through my phone or a PC.