You would really be surprised today on how many don't carry it around here.. and drive brand new cars. They end up in our shop ALL the time. "I could afford the car, but couldn't afford the insurance". Not quite sure how they even pull it off.
No they couldn't. They could afford the monthly payment on the car with zero down and no first month payment.
I guess I am glad (and can't see it any other way) I come from a state that requires insurance.
Ours requires it also, but the collision is only required by the finance companies. They must lie to the insurance companies when they buy the car who their financing is through, drive the car out of the dealership, then cancel the coverage. We had a 5 month old 300M that was a total loss. No coverage. Either they'd have to pay the remainder of the 5 years with no car, or if their credit sucks default and let the creditors chase them.
Do sober what you said what you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. - Ernest Hemingway
Ours requires it also, but the collision is only required by the finance companies. They must lie to the insurance companies when they buy the car who their financing is through, drive the car out of the dealership, then cancel the coverage. We had a 5 month old 300M that was a total loss. No coverage. Either they'd have to pay the remainder of the 5 years with no car, or if their credit sucks default and let the creditors chase them.
ouch! But they bought a 300 in the first place so - something's wrong there
Come find yourself - GPS Discussion Forums
Time is the ultimate currency.
The Seamii are awesome.
You sir are starting to sound like me more each day. Creepy
Dave Ramsey is incredibly aggressive to debt. His "plan" and message is how to end it.
I've made enough money, and had a big enough shovel for long enough to have tried all sorts of financial things with varied amounts of exotica. I've done some of the risky interesting types of investing, with varied success. Our credit scores and history afford us the very best rates available when we borrow.
The wife and I talked and I didn't realize how much all my tricks scared her, but she figured it was "my" money, and I wasn't bleeding cash, so she hadn't spoken up. But, I can't have a wife terrified I'm going to bring the house down, so time for a new plan.
I posed a question to her, when we're net asset millionaires the first time, what do we want that to look like?
Do we want a million dollar house with 15% equity some "consumer" debt and a $900,000 securities portfolio? (with our tax rates, more than a couple would suggest this route) Do we want a highly leveraged real estate portfolio with a couple million in holdings, but a million in debt? A paid off house near median and the balance in tax exempt accounts? A trailer in the hills with a bunch of guns and gold?
In talking to friends in the "network" there was a huge preference for a debt free house, debt free balance sheet, and some investments. Ask someone what they'd do if they won the lottery and the most common second response (after "take this job and shove it") seems to be pay off the house.
We live in a place where the median house is currently ~$550,000. We are generally disciplined people, we have a decent "down payment" in our retirement funds, and we have good future earning potential. We also work in cyclical industries, and as she works for one of the highest paying companies in America, there is a decent chance a job change could see her pay drop. I believe that pressure/fear could actually hurt her future career prospects, so that was a big problem that needed addressing. (Probably our biggest AFAIAC.)
Ultimately, we decided we wanted our first million to look like a paid for median priced house, no debt and a minority in securities investments. At that point, damn near anything life threw at us, including me back to cleaning toilets and her working at an animal shelter, our house, food, cars, and our retirement wouldn't be jeoprodized. If current pay continued or improved, it'd be a monstrous upside we'd have the pleasure of allocating as we wanted.
Those aims would be most closely aligned with the "Dave Ramsey plan", and with or without his influence, we'd look like what you too are doing...
As far as balanced, sure, I'm not racing motorcycles. We haven't done that dream diving trip in Indonesia. I don't have my pilot's license. And one of us might get hit by a truck killing the opportunities forever as we scrimp our lifestyle. Thing is, there are plenty of things we also want to do, that we can't do if we're too old or disabled, that are cheap. We love hiking and backpacking. So instead of Hawaii, we could hike sections of the Tahoe Rim trail the next few summers. Hike all the good local trails on weekends. Improve our community/charity work (from nearly nothing). I'm reading and welding more. She's painting more. We spend more time cooking and formal dinners at home. (and less money on food)
Last edited by luvtolean; 01-28-2010 at 12:30 PM.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
Smart lady LTL and good on you both for having the discussion. I don't subscribe to all of what he says but he does encourage the communication between spouses, after all it was NOT your money he was both of y'alls
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
I've been fairly quiet in regards to any substantial feedback, but It's really interesting reading this and reviewing the results.
My "IRL friends" are either at one end or the other but none are really at a place I consider enjoyable. I have a friend that isn't "maxed" but considers himself to be paying debt till he dies anyways, so why not take advantage of the ability to do so as long as he can afford payments.
I have another with millions in the bank, a couple paid for homes, stocks, etc. - no kids - no wife - and just stopped driving his 1993 Grand Am to replace with a newer Venza. Those are the two extremes, but it seems all of them are either closer to one or the other.
Turning to any of them for advice typically results in "balance" for me because I get enough from both sides . Everyone thinks they enjoy their lives, but it really seems those at both ends of the spectrum are just convincing themselves of that. Thats why this thread is fairly interesting to read. I am not taking it all in as gospel no worries, but I do like seeing several different perspectives on something that is a fairly personal discussion and might be completely bizarre in person.
So far all I have done is gone over the list of monthly things we have drawing on us and reviewing what are necessities vs. what aren't. Taking a page from one of the links that LTL shared earlier regarding the "perception" of spending money, I reflected a bit. It was funny that I will spend HOURS in a car dealership working ~5$ a month off a car payment but won't bat an eye when it comes to netflix whacking me 11$ for their on-demand service which I actually use (the not online portion) extremely infrequently, or that second sirius radio for 6$ a month that just sits around unused. These are all little things that could be easily trimmed from the tree without even the slightest difference in lifestyle...but over 5 years will save me nearly 1k$.
I've also (prior to this thread, actually) been trying to find where my real problem is.
My biggest personal demon is spending money before I have it. That 600rr is a good example, bought it, hated it, bought a TON of stuff for it, decided it had to go - bought the 1000rr because I was going to sell the 600rr, and then eventually got the 600rr back into good condition and sold it - finally, mostly because I was running on low in a couple accounts I like to have higher waterlines in. Looking around my basement area, I have a lot of things like that 600rr that I will need to move shortly
Thanks for reading my thread...
edit: woot.com is the devil of 2007/2008 I recently realized.
Come find yourself - GPS Discussion Forums
Time is the ultimate currency.
The Seamii are awesome.
In addition to asking them how they like the good times ask them about the bad times (which always happen). The ability to adapt when you are debt free can make hard times suck a LOT less. They also enable you to help others on hard times if it is appropriate.
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
Smart lady LTL and good on you both for having the discussion. I don't subscribe to all of what he says but he does encourage the communication between spouses, after all it was NOT your money he was both of y'alls
She's naturally almost too cheap with money (I have to convince her to max out buying cereal when it's a buck a box), and I am nearly fearless with it (hey asshole, quit speculating on day trades in the markets with 10-20% of your gross).
It's a good blend. But definitely not always easy.
Then again, the best things never are...
Last edited by luvtolean; 01-28-2010 at 12:40 PM.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
She's naturally almost too cheap with money (I have to convince her to max out buying cereal when it's a buck a box), and I am nearly fearless with it (hey asshole, quit speculating on day trades in the markets with 10-20% of your gross).
It's a good blend. But definitely not always easy.
Then again, the best things never are...
And if you recognize it while working at it you will both benefit immensely
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
Dave Ramsey is incredibly aggressive to debt. His "plan" and message is how to end it.
I've made enough money, and had a big enough shovel for long enough to have tried all sorts of financial things with varied amounts of exotica. I've done some of the risky interesting types of investing, with varied success. Our credit scores and history afford us the very best rates available when we borrow.
The wife and I talked and I didn't realize how much all my tricks scared her, but she figured it was "my" money, and I wasn't bleeding cash, so she hadn't spoken up. But, I can't have a wife terrified I'm going to bring the house down, so time for a new plan.
I posed a question to her, when we're net asset millionaires the first time, what do we want that to look like?
Do we want a million dollar house with 15% equity some "consumer" debt and a $900,000 securities portfolio? (with our tax rates, more than a couple would suggest this route) Do we want a highly leveraged real estate portfolio with a couple million in holdings, but a million in debt? A paid off house near median and the balance in tax exempt accounts? A trailer in the hills with a bunch of guns and gold?
In talking to friends in the "network" there was a huge preference for a debt free house, debt free balance sheet, and some investments. Ask someone what they'd do if they won the lottery and the most common second response (after "take this job and shove it") seems to be pay off the house.
We live in a place where the median house is currently ~$550,000. We are generally disciplined people, we have a decent "down payment" in our retirement funds, and we have good future earning potential. We also work in cyclical industries, and as she works for one of the highest paying companies in America, there is a decent chance a job change could see her pay drop. I believe that pressure/fear could actually hurt her future career prospects, so that was a big problem that needed addressing. (Probably our biggest AFAIAC.)
Ultimately, we decided we wanted our first million to look like a paid for median priced house, no debt and a minority in securities investments. At that point, damn near anything life threw at us, including me back to cleaning toilets and her working at an animal shelter, our house, food, cars, and our retirement wouldn't be jeoprodized. If current pay continued or improved, it'd be a monstrous upside we'd have the pleasure of allocating as we wanted.
Those aims would be most closely aligned with the "Dave Ramsey plan", and with or without his influence, we'd look like what you too are doing...
As far as balanced, sure, I'm not racing motorcycles. We haven't done that dream diving trip in Indonesia. I don't have my pilot's license. And one of us might get hit by a truck killing the opportunities forever as we scrimp our lifestyle. Thing is, there are plenty of things we also want to do, that we can't do if we're too old or disabled, that are cheap. We love hiking and backpacking. So instead of Hawaii, we could hike sections of the Tahoe Rim trail the next few summers. Hike all the good local trails on weekends. Improve our community/charity work (from nearly nothing). I'm reading and welding more. She's painting more. We spend more time cooking and formal dinners at home. (and less money on food)
Sounds like you are singing a different tune from a few years ago. Glad to hear it.
One thing I never realized back when I was blowing money hand over fist was money doesn't equal happiness. I guess it was probably why I was broke and never found it. Weird how that works.
Do sober what you said what you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. - Ernest Hemingway
I've also (prior to this thread, actually) been trying to find where my real problem is.
My biggest personal demon is spending money before I have it. That 600rr is a good example, bought it, hated it, bought a TON of stuff for it, decided it had to go - bought the 1000rr because I was going to sell the 600rr, and then eventually got the 600rr back into good condition and sold it - finally, mostly because I was running on low in a couple accounts I like to have higher waterlines in. Looking around my basement area, I have a lot of things like that 600rr that I will need to move shortly
Thanks for reading my thread...
edit: woot.com is the devil of 2007/2008 I recently realized.
Don't forget the brand new car you bought to "save money" yet spent more the first month you had it than you would have to pay off your truck.
And for the record, I told you to stop wooting long ago.
While I am fairly good at telling you when you are being a fool with your money...I am also guilty of feeling bad for always telling you that you don't need to buy things. So when you say, "hunny, honda is selling 08 cbr's at like 5k off" I am easily convinced that you should buy it.
Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
Don't forget the brand new car you bought to "save money" yet spent more the first month you had it than you would have to pay off your truck.
And for the record, I told you to stop wooting long ago.
While I am fairly good at telling you when you are being a fool with your money...I am also guilty of feeling bad for always telling you that you don't need to buy things. So when you say, "hunny, honda is selling 08 cbr's at like 5k off" I am easily convinced that you should buy it.
I can't vouge for him on the car or the 600, but the 08' was a good deal. Good enough to make me consider buying a second one.
Do sober what you said what you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. - Ernest Hemingway
Sounds like you are singing a different tune from a few years ago. Glad to hear it.
One thing I never realized back when I was blowing money hand over fist was money doesn't equal happiness. I guess it was probably why I was broke and never found it. Weird how that works.
Oh, I'm not, and haven't been, unhappy. There was no empty hole. I never woke up and said, "OH SHIT, I'm broke!!"
Some of the most fun I've ever had was when I was racing and travelling all the time and spending it almost as fast as I made it. I've got a passport full of stamps and a couple of dented and dirty first place plaques on my wall in the garage. That was pretty much the plan on graduation day.
I hope I'm different now than a few years ago! Otherwise, what's the point?! If you aren't looking and following your eyes forward, you're falling behind.
Last edited by luvtolean; 01-28-2010 at 11:44 PM.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
Wow...I picked up on this thread late. I have at one point been just like most other people in this country...being leveraged out the a** and just trying to make more money to cover everything. I started to get smarter and started investing more but didnt do all the research I needed. I at one point had six mortgages, multiple properties that I overpaid for, investments in business ventures of my friends (that I didnt do enough research on). Wound up owing in the 7 figure range. Got a bit smarter and wiser...now down to one mortgage and I am trying to get rid of that one. I have been blessed enough to have had a six figure income for that last few years but I have foolish enough to spend a lot of it. I have no kids and no wife...yet, so I was enjoying life...traveling extensively staying in expensive hotels, etc.
A lot of my financial missteps come from my desire to make a lot of money...I was always quick to throw money at an investment and then get bored and move on a little less wealthy. I have had vending machines, websites, some consulting and the only thing that I can say I havent given up on is consulting.
Now I beleive I am on the right track. I hope to be out of debt minus my student loans and a car note by years end. I was wise enough to make investments that I hope will pay off in the next 10 yrs or so, and I need to allocate more of my income to investing. I have a written plan that details my financial/personal goals, and also a spreadsheet where I track my monthly income and expenditures. I am finding ways to reduce my taxable income (legal ways), and also building up some savings.
All that said...I still want that BMW...what can I say I have a weakness/illness...
Wow...I picked up on this thread late. I have at one point been just like most other people in this country...being leveraged out the a** and just trying to make more money to cover everything. I started to get smarter and started investing more but didnt do all the research I needed. I at one point had six mortgages, multiple properties that I overpaid for, investments in business ventures of my friends (that I didnt do enough research on). Wound up owing in the 7 figure range. Got a bit smarter and wiser...now down to one mortgage and I am trying to get rid of that one. I have been blessed enough to have had a six figure income for that last few years but I have foolish enough to spend a lot of it. I have no kids and no wife...yet, so I was enjoying life...traveling extensively staying in expensive hotels, etc.
A lot of my financial missteps come from my desire to make a lot of money...I was always quick to throw money at an investment and then get bored and move on a little less wealthy. I have had vending machines, websites, some consulting and the only thing that I can say I havent given up on is consulting.
Now I beleive I am on the right track. I hope to be out of debt minus my student loans and a car note by years end. I was wise enough to make investments that I hope will pay off in the next 10 yrs or so, and I need to allocate more of my income to investing. I have a written plan that details my financial/personal goals, and also a spreadsheet where I track my monthly income and expenditures. I am finding ways to reduce my taxable income (legal ways), and also building up some savings.
All that said...I still want that BMW...what can I say I have a weakness/illness...
That sounds like a hell of a story over some beers sometime, dang...glad to hear it is all looking UP for you though, thats the best part.
Come find yourself - GPS Discussion Forums
Time is the ultimate currency.
The Seamii are awesome.
That sounds like a hell of a story over some beers sometime, dang...glad to hear it is all looking UP for you though, thats the best part.
Yeah...its a story for Grattan if I make it there. The former "friends" that I invested in are in jail for doing a pump and dump on their companies stock. My heart is bleeding for them...I really hope they arent in a cell with a well endowed homosexual sex fiend...that would suck for them...
CBRVFR! I have found your cult, this author's credentials as a fellow iconoclast are impeccable.
An excerpt:
If I hear one more financeal pundit tell me I can put my financial house in order simply by giving up a four-dollar cup of Starbucks coffee every day, I'm going to force him to listen to his own audiotapes while I show him the photographs of Suze Orman's face photo-shopped onto Halle Berry's body.....The so-called Latte Factor and that whole genre of "save big money painlessly" plans are flawed in a number of ways, starting with the fact that lots of us are way too smart to pay four dollars for a cup of coffee in the first place.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
This article demonstrates the reason for our intensity in paying off our debt the majority student related...you don't want to end up in a situation where you're short of cash with student loans.
With rare exception bankruptcy doesn't help, and they can confiscate your wages without a court order. They know this and act accordingly when you call to work with them.
Got that t-shirt...I got hit with a big fee and interest as I had no documentation explaining this would happen after I deferred my loan when I started grad school. They just kept repeating "whatever, pay us"...
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
I just got a letter today stating that the Dept of Ed bought this years student loans from Wells Fargo. Either way the terms are the same but I liked it better when on paper it was WF that I was in debt to rather the government.
Edit: I still find it absolutely ridiculous that interest accrues while we are in residency. We make just over minimum wage and they want large payments or the interest racks up.
Last edited by slickwill; 02-16-2010 at 06:31 PM.
...dude you ride an offroad bike with slicks, 1/2 the weight of a GS, double the suspension, with a browning 50 cal going off 32" from your skull as a daily freaking driver - I'd expect anything except a nitro dragbike to be bland by comparison - SSG
I just got a letter today stating that the Dept of Ed bought this years student loans from Wells Fargo. Either way the terms are the same but I liked it better when on paper it was WF that I was in debt to rather the government.
Edit: I still find it absolutely ridiculous that interest accrues while we are in residency. We make just over minimum wage and they want large payments or the interest racks up.
Interest would've accrued if I made $0 in grad school too.
I was lucky it was only about $10k, and went up to about $12k. I was pissed off, and ended up using a 0% balance transfer to a credit card to get them out of my life as soon as I could.
With the wife's 6 figure load, that is not an option. We have to be perfect to a bunch of different lenders.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
...I'm going to force him to listen to his own audiotapes while I show him the photographs of Suze Orman's face photo-shopped onto Halle Berry's body.....
We just got hit with a card that added a $39 yearly fee.
It'll be cancelled if they don't waive it.
Watch your statements...
Definitely a good law to make people get away from credit cards.
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
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