Thread: "Assault Rifle" and "Sporting" rifle Explanation video

wow you must have some screwed up gun laws out there

Originally Posted by quick26

wow you must have some screwed up gun laws out there

Your comment, and Phobe's excellent signature brewed a little analogy as I went out to lunch.

Let's say the CA legislature, finally done with guns, decided KILLER SPORTBIKES are next.

Of course, as you plot and scheme with your bill, you'll also be waiting for some stupid kid to tragically plow into a minivan killing a whole family while in a high speed pursuit with the cops.


The first thing we'll do is compile a list of sportbikes to ban by name. We'll ban all "Ninjas, Fireblades and Gixxers". Then some staffer will do at least 15 minutes of research in a copy of Sport Rider, and figure out they should also ban all GSXRs, all CBRs, all ZXs, and all YZFs.

Then, in a flash of brilliance, someone will decide to say:
Honda CBR (all)
Suzuki GSXR (all)
etc etc

The gun list is called the Kasler list, and anything on it you can't buy.

Knowing your group is a bunch of lazy, inept non-motorcyclists, you'll also try to ban all future sportbikes, and those, like MV and Ducati, you might have missed, with the most open verbage you can muster. So you'll describe it like all perimeter framed motorcycles, with clip ons below the top triple clamp, and bodywork that encloses the engine.

It will be your organization's job to update the Kasler list as new models are released, to protect the children. Of course, your office, with more important things to go after now, like butter knives, has forgotten about the law and never once updates it. Also, once people start bringing in sportbikes not on the list, your org does not want to add the new models, because anyone who bought one before you realized it, could register their evil sportbike and keep it.

This will really piss off a local DA, who likes his sportbike, and he'll challenge this portion of the law in court as your office is not listing new weapons, and never has. Surprisingly, he'll actually win. In gun parlance, this was the Harrot decision.

After a couple of years, the people start buying lots of new models that have been released that aren't listed. This will come to a head in an election year.

So, you will then pass a law, saying it is not your responsibility to list, but the AMA will also argue that that also means you can never, ever list again, and slightly decriminalize the owning of banned sportbikes.

But you are a lawyer and you prepared for that eventuality so you had also banned motorcycles by feature.

Realizing the futility of our cause, and knowing we can't pass a bill to ban all bikes, as all motorcyclists would stand together and make sure it didn't happen, we attempt to ban motorcycles by feature and split the ranks of riders.

The absolute most evil feature possible is a gas tank with a gas cap that allows you to readily refuel your bike (ie detachable magazine) and continue on your blaze of destruction.

So, we'll build the law around that.

We wouldn't want anything that might improve ergonomics allowing you to ride your bike more proficiently. So, a quick turn throttle, which allows you to randomly twist the throttle and run over small children (ie a pistol grip) is banned.

You also can't change the position of the handlebars, as this might allow you to operate the motorcycle more efficiently (ie no thumbhole or collapsible stocks, no forward pistol grip)

Despite it not being legal to have a large rocket on your bike, you're not allowed to have a mount on the bike you could theoretically bolt a rocket engine to. Because that makes bikes sound real scary. (rocket and grenade launcher bans, which on a rifle is typically a lump of metal allowing the gun to support a grenade)

You can't have a muffler that makes your motorcycle quiet. (no flash suppressors)

Realizing we still have holes, after all, people could build bikes with sealed tanks!, we move on. We also ban perimeter framed, faired motorcycles, with clip ons below the bar, if they have a gas tank that holds over one gallon of gas (no more than 10 round magazines).

We will also ban the importation or sale of high capacity gas tanks, and we also make it illegal to have a gas tank that could be made into one that held over 1 gallon of fuel.

But we will allow out of state residents coming into California for a race to bring their bikes with them with high capacity tanks, if they go straight to the competition and leave afterwards. BUT, we won't let Californians who compete to have gas tanks that hold more than a gallon... (out of staters can bring "high capacity" magazines into the state to compete)

Remember, it's all for the children. If it saved just one life...it'd be worth it.

Motorcycles don't have enough in common with guns for that to really be "apt". Good post though. When governments mess with our lives in any respect I have a problem.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

An AR is a high performance rifle. A CBR is a high performance motorcycle.
.

And the Whirlpool GU3200 is a high-performance dishwasher. Big deal.

Indeed both the gun and the bike are dangerous, and both are used primarily for recreation, but one is designed for racing and the other is designed for killing.

Again, I think the way they try to designate what guns are ok and what aren't (they all do fundamentally the same thing, and like motorcycles, even the lowest-performance models can kill someone) but I don't think it's a fair comparison.

I didn't say killing people.

Those that wish to make firearms illegal want to keep the public as ignorant as possible about firearms.
The general public today has no concept of the differences in gun types, the practical applications of firearms in recreation, or tools of defense, or most importantly, rules regarding their safe use and ownership.
The common mis-guided public perception regarding weapons comes from movies and video games, now days.
The media thrives on hype, not accuracy in reporting, and certainly not truth.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I didn't say killing people.

So if it isn't killing people then it must be killing animals. Is it bad to kill your own food anymore? Is it necessary? For most people, no. Some do enjoy it as a sport. Others do it to try and keep the deer population under control. No, there is no need to go deer hunting with an AR-15(although frankly I couldn't care less - there are way too many of them) and there are laws against that per state.

As for me, I'm getting off my sick arse as much as I can tomorrow and going to the county gun show and hope I find a good deal or two before some whack job in 08 decides that the few rifles I want to add to my collection are a danger to society.

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

So if it isn't killing people then it must be killing animals. Is it bad to kill your own food anymore? Is it necessary? For most people, no. Some do enjoy it as a sport. Others do it to try and keep the deer population under control. No, there is no need to go deer hunting with an AR-15(although frankly I couldn't care less - there are way too many of them) and there are laws against that per state.

You're reading too far into my post. I have nothing against hunting. Not even baby seals.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

You're reading too far into my post. I have nothing against hunting. Not even baby seals.

So what's your point then?

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Bleh. My answer sucked anyway.

Guns and motorcycles were designed to do the exact same thing, mass transfer.

Motorcycles move the mass of itself and the rider, guns provide the means to move bullets.

.

You're joking right?

I believe that firearms were originally designed for killing.
Both as weapons of war and a tool to put food on the table.
Does that mean that is all they are good for? No, but it is something inherant in the design of virtually all firearms.

The sportbike analogy is apt. A sport bike (as in the current breed of Race-replica 600-1000cc models) is designed for RACING.
Can they be ridden public roads in a same legal manor? Yes, but how often is it abused? We go out of our way on this, and other forums not to promote stunt or "squid" behavior. But it will always be that the public in general will put more emphasis on the acts of those who cannot control themselves, and judge those who do behave unjustly.

The same can be said for firearms.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Bleh. My answer sucked anyway.

Guns and motorcycles were designed to do the exact same thing, mass transfer.

Motorcycles move the mass of itself and the rider, guns provide the means to move bullets.

Whether or not the operator decides to do stupid things directing that force is up to them.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

You're joking right?

We've got engineering and sales represented. All we need now is someone in marketing and the synergy formula will be complete

Originally Posted by luvtolean

But my answer that lead to this train of thought was incorrect.

I thougtht it was hyperbole.

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

So what's your point then?

Should I say it a third time? I don't think the analogy comparing guns to motorcycles is valid.

Here I'll draw you a picture.

I'm going to make me some popcorn.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Should I say it a third time? I don't think the analogy comparing guns to motorcycles is valid.

Here I'll draw you a picture.

Ok, so provide one that you think is more valid.

EDIT: I'm not saying I think LTL's is valid one way or the other...

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Nope.

Think about it.

All the engineering that goes into a firearm is about moving a mass where the operator wants it to go. You could even calculate the horsepower of a rifle if you wanted.

Same as a motorcycle...

I can't wait until my next mass-transfering day, be it at the range or the race track.

Edit: You know, a trebuchet has the same purpose as an escalator.

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Should I say it a third time? I don't think the analogy comparing guns to motorcycles is valid.

Here I'll draw you a picture.

That's still no reason to shoot at motorcycles, Phobe!