Bank failure(s) - Page 5

seamus · 10-02-2008, 08:16 AM

Lumping the WSJ in there is confusing to me...

SheepOfBlue · 10-02-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

Lumping the WSJ in there is confusing to me...

There is sheep reasoning in that.... If I was 100% clear would you not be suspicious that it was a bot rather than me?

luvtolean · 10-02-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Wall Street Journal: Conservatives blaming the victims

Well, I guess plying tripe like this does sell papers. Still a bit disappointing the WSJ gave it voice...

luvtolean · 10-02-2008, 09:56 PM

Economy in melt down, people mad as hell...what are people searching Yahoo for? Angelina Jolie.

Amazing...

seamus · 10-02-2008, 10:07 PM

That's because the rumor is she and Brad are broken up.

oldfogey · 10-03-2008, 07:03 AM

Greece provides blanket guarantee to their banks, modelled on the Irish move. EU talks scheduled over the weekend as the Irish "unfair competition" arguments on deposits rumbles on. Some compare the Irish move to putting up tariff barriers in the 1929 crash. Irish banks are gaining large amounts of Euro and Sterling deposits.

Danish property prices fell 9.6% in the second quarter, the biggest drop in western Europe; prices also dropped 8.1% in Ireland and 3.9% in the U.K.

Central banks pump in more money to system as everyone awaits the House vote tonight. There are rumours that coordinated central bank rate cuts are being discussed either as a supplement to the vote passing, or in case it does not.

ND4SPD · 10-03-2008, 08:35 AM

oldfogey, did the European banks have the same subprime lending practices the US banks had or are they suffering because of their US investments?

Here is the newly proposed bill:

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Wind power developers, disaster victims, college students, teachers and millions of taxpayers and businesses stand to see substantial benefits from the tax relief package that lawmakers added to the huge financial rescue plan.
ADVERTISEMENT

So will more narrowly focused groups, including motor sports racetrack owners, film producers and bicycle commuters.

Virtually all of the tax breaks already exist. But many of them expired Jan. 1 for use in the current tax year, and the others will expire three months from now unless Congress renews them.

The largest group of beneficiaries in what is now the tax portion of the financial rescue bill is about 20 million mainly upper-middle income taxpayers. Without congressional action, the AMT, with originally was supposed to affect only the very rich, would add some $2,000 this year to the tax bill of people mostly earning under $200,000 a year.

Thousands of businesses are waiting for renewal of the research-and-development tax credit, which expired at the end of last year. Without that credit, industry advocates say, high tech, biotech and aerospace companies would have trouble hiring the highly skilled workers needed to compete with foreign competitors.

The Information Technology Association of America reports an $18.5 billion drop in R&D activity since the beginning of the year when the credit lapsed. The R&D credit extension would cost $19 billion over 10 years. The cost of the entire tax portion of the bill is close to $110 billion.

The renewable energy incentives include an eight-year extension of investment credits for solar energy, as well as breaks for wind, geothermal and other alternative sources. The solar industry says extension of the credits through 2016 would produce an extra 440,000 jobs and more than $230 billion in investments.

The measure also has $8 billion in tax breaks for disaster victims, $5 billion for higher education tuition deductions and $400 million in deductions for teachers who buy school supplies with their own money.

There are $3 billion in deductions for residents of states without income taxes that have state and local sales taxes. Extending the deduction would save Texans a projected $1.2 billion a year or an average of $520 per filer claiming the deduction, said Matt Mackowiak, spokesman for Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas.

There are also some four dozen small provisions. Among them, with projected costs over 10 years:

_Extending an expired provision that gives Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands a rebate against excise taxes charged on imported rum. The rebate, at $13.50 per proof gallon, has been in effect since 1999. The cost is $192 million.

_Establishing a new tax credit ranging from $2,500 to $7,500 for purchasers of plug-in electric-drive vehicles. Cost: $758 million.

_Extending tax credits that expired at the end of 2007 for certain domestic corporations involved in American Samoa economic development. Cost: $33 million.

_Extending a credit of up to $10,000 for the training of mine rescue team members. The credit expires at the end of this year and the one-year extension costs $4 million.

_Enacting President Bush's proposal to erase the debt of the black lung disability trust fund at a cost of $1.3 billion.

_Extending for one year a seven-year depreciation timetable that NASCAR and other motorsport racing facilities have had for some years, the same tax break that amusement parks enjoy. Without the extension, the tracks would have to depreciate the cost of their improvements over 15 years, raising their taxes by $100 million.

_Extending for five years a program that reduces import duties on some wool fabrics. The tariff relief benefits U.S. worsted wool fabric producers that use imported fibers and yarns. Cost: $148 million.

_Increasing the single-year deduction in production costs, from $15 million to $20 million, that film and TV productions may take if the costs are incurred in economically depressed areas. In an effort to keep film and TV productions in the U.S., it also allows more companies to use a domestic production deduction. Cost: $478 million.

_Allowing commercial fishermen and others hurt by the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska to average out damage awards over three years rather than taking a one-year hit from the IRS. Cost: $49 million.

_Extending two programs that fund rural schools and rural communities that have been relying on declining income from logging on federal land or have low property tax bases because they are located on or next to federal lands. This is a major issue in the West. Cost: $3.3 billion.

_Exempting wooden practice arrows used by children from an excise tax of 39 cents per arrow. Oregon's two senators have pushed for the action, saying the tax was meant for more expensive archery arrows and is untenable for makers of toy arrows that may cost only about 30 cents apiece. The bill would affect about nine manufacturers nationwide, including one in Oregon. Cost: $2 million.

_Allowing employers to exempt from taxation what they spend on some fringe benefits for workers who commute to work by bicycle, for example reimbursing the cost of parking the bikes. Cost: $2 million.

Some House members and radio-TV commentators have called for eliminating several of the measures, including those affecting wooden arrows, Puerto Rican rum, racetracks and film producers.

"All these things are called sweeteners in order to get votes from Democrats and Republicans in the House," conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh said at the opening of his show Thursday. "To get this bailout through the Senate and House, they've added pork. Surprise, surprise."

Tax breaks big and small sweeten financial bailout - Yahoo! News

oldfogey · 10-03-2008, 08:39 AM

L2L, European banks are suffering from the global issues of extended balance sheets, exposure to US mortgage debt and lack of liquidity. The domestic mortgage markets (Ireland, UK, Denmark and Spain in order of seriousness) that are weakening rapidly are yet to have a big effect on bad debts.

Edit: PS, Wachovia agrees to sell itself to Wells Fargo in a $15.4bn takeover that will require no government assistance, scrapping a government-backed deal with Citi. Offer values Wachovia at $7 a share in stock, 79% above yesterday's close. Wells shares rise 2% and Wachovia jumps 65% pre-market.

Edit: A sensible Economist article today: http://www.economist.com/printeditio...ry_ID=12342237

BizJetGuy · 10-03-2008, 10:55 AM

I think I can wrap my simple mind around this explanation:

http://home.comcast.net/~clwhite6/subprime.pps

Powerpoint viewer required

luvtolean · 10-03-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

I think I can wrap my simple mind around this explanation:

http://home.comcast.net/~clwhite6/subprime.pps

Powerpoint viewer required

Hehe.

luvtolean · 10-03-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfogey

Edit: PS, Wachovia agrees to sell itself to Wells Fargo in a $15.4bn takeover that will require no government assistance, scrapping a government-backed deal with Citi. Offer values Wachovia at $7 a share in stock, 79% above yesterday's close. Wells shares rise 2% and Wachovia jumps 65% pre-market.

It sounds like there is going to be a hell of a fight here.

Wells Fargo agrees to buy Wachovia, Citi objects - Yahoo! News

MotoVegas · 10-03-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

It sounds like there is going to be a hell of a fight here.

Wells Fargo agrees to buy Wachovia, Citi objects - Yahoo! News

I bought some WB a week ago. Looking good so far!

luvtolean · 10-03-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotoVegas

I bought some WB a week ago. Looking good so far!

Boy, you're not kidding, up 78% today.

luvtolean · 10-03-2008, 01:36 PM

The pork infused bail-out passed.

Congress OKs historic bailout bill - Yahoo! News

ND4SPD · 10-03-2008, 02:55 PM

No real response from the market. Odd. I thought things would be skyrocketing by now.

MrX · 10-03-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

No real response from the market. Odd. I thought things would be skyrocketing by now.

That'll be after Jan 1st and it wont be stocks

ND4SPD · 10-03-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrX

That'll be after Jan 1st and it wont be stocks

Yep.

Baketech · 10-03-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

No real response from the market. Odd. I thought things would be skyrocketing by now.

Meh...the cost and complexity of actually applying this package will make SOX look like a walk in the park...

seamus · 10-03-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Boy, you're not kidding, up 78% today.

Can't believe I missed that one. RAGE!!

Even still, I'm doing mighty fine in this little hiccup.

oldfogey · 10-06-2008, 05:09 AM

So, the two European bank "rescues" of last week unravelled over the weekend. The Dutch government nationalised their part of Fortis and the Belgian, Luxemburg and French governments agreed that BNP Paribas should take out the Belgian part. The funding for the Hypo Real Estate rescue in Germany fell apart and the German government coordinated a new package with state support. After a summit of the heads of government of France, Germany, Italy and the UK which condemned individual country's actions without consultation (read Ireland), Angela Merkel went home and, as part of the rescue package for Hypo, gave an unlimited government guarantee for German bank deposits. Austria and Denmark followed suit.

Stockmarkets are down 5% on Monday morning in the Far East and Europe, with the Euro predictably weak.

Iceland's institutions are in critical talks to save their financial system. Iceland's banks have debt equivalent to 800% of gnp, making a simple nationalisation impossible. The government is talking about getting pension funds to repatriate assets to support the currency.

The inevitable legal wrangles between Citi and Wells Fargo over Wachovia continue.

Edit: The German government has clarified that it only issued a "political assurance" that no depositor would lose their money and is not actually guaranteeing depositors' money. The Danish guarantee is a financial sector mutual insurance fund.

ND4SPD · 10-06-2008, 02:52 PM

The DOW is down over 760 points today.

Any takers that it'll hit 1,000?

jose_jimenez · 10-06-2008, 03:39 PM

Wow that bailout program really seems to have worked............

BizJetGuy · 10-06-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

Wow that bailout program really seems to have worked............

Good thing both candidates supported it.

Decision 2008 - We're Screwed.

ND4SPD · 10-06-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

Good thing both candidates supported it.

Decision 2008 - We're Screwed.

Courtesy of shirt.woot.com

10-02-2008, 08:16 AM	#121
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,741	Lumping the WSJ in there is confusing to me... __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

10-02-2008, 09:56 PM	#124
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,731	Economy in melt down, people mad as hell...what are people searching Yahoo for? Angelina Jolie. Amazing... Attached Images __________________ The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

10-02-2008, 10:07 PM	#125
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,741	That's because the rumor is she and Brad are broken up. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

10-03-2008, 07:03 AM	#126
oldfogey Senior member Join Date: 12-14-2006 Location: St Albans, UK Age: 56 Bike(s): Honda VFR800i, BSA Posts: 1,250	Greece provides blanket guarantee to their banks, modelled on the Irish move. EU talks scheduled over the weekend as the Irish "unfair competition" arguments on deposits rumbles on. Some compare the Irish move to putting up tariff barriers in the 1929 crash. Irish banks are gaining large amounts of Euro and Sterling deposits. Danish property prices fell 9.6% in the second quarter, the biggest drop in western Europe; prices also dropped 8.1% in Ireland and 3.9% in the U.K. Central banks pump in more money to system as everyone awaits the House vote tonight. There are rumours that coordinated central bank rate cuts are being discussed either as a supplement to the vote passing, or in case it does not. __________________ Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt - Herbert Hoover

10-03-2008, 08:39 AM	#128
oldfogey Senior member Join Date: 12-14-2006 Location: St Albans, UK Age: 56 Bike(s): Honda VFR800i, BSA Posts: 1,250	L2L, European banks are suffering from the global issues of extended balance sheets, exposure to US mortgage debt and lack of liquidity. The domestic mortgage markets (Ireland, UK, Denmark and Spain in order of seriousness) that are weakening rapidly are yet to have a big effect on bad debts. Edit: PS, Wachovia agrees to sell itself to Wells Fargo in a $15.4bn takeover that will require no government assistance, scrapping a government-backed deal with Citi. Offer values Wachovia at $7 a share in stock, 79% above yesterday's close. Wells shares rise 2% and Wachovia jumps 65% pre-market. Edit: A sensible Economist article today: http://www.economist.com/printeditio...ry_ID=12342237 __________________ Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt - Herbert Hoover Last edited by oldfogey; 10-03-2008 at 09:04 AM..

10-03-2008, 10:55 AM	#129
BizJetGuy Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Indiana Age: 39 Bike(s): Aprilia RST 1000 Posts: 875	I think I can wrap my simple mind around this explanation: http://home.comcast.net/~clwhite6/subprime.pps Powerpoint viewer required __________________ Billy Ray can't rope worth shit

10-03-2008, 01:36 PM	#134
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,731	The pork infused bail-out passed. Congress OKs historic bailout bill - Yahoo! News __________________ The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

10-03-2008, 02:55 PM	#135
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,416 Images: 25	No real response from the market. Odd. I thought things would be skyrocketing by now. __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X "Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door"

10-06-2008, 05:09 AM	#140
oldfogey Senior member Join Date: 12-14-2006 Location: St Albans, UK Age: 56 Bike(s): Honda VFR800i, BSA Posts: 1,250	So, the two European bank "rescues" of last week unravelled over the weekend. The Dutch government nationalised their part of Fortis and the Belgian, Luxemburg and French governments agreed that BNP Paribas should take out the Belgian part. The funding for the Hypo Real Estate rescue in Germany fell apart and the German government coordinated a new package with state support. After a summit of the heads of government of France, Germany, Italy and the UK which condemned individual country's actions without consultation (read Ireland), Angela Merkel went home and, as part of the rescue package for Hypo, gave an unlimited government guarantee for German bank deposits. Austria and Denmark followed suit. Stockmarkets are down 5% on Monday morning in the Far East and Europe, with the Euro predictably weak. Iceland's institutions are in critical talks to save their financial system. Iceland's banks have debt equivalent to 800% of gnp, making a simple nationalisation impossible. The government is talking about getting pension funds to repatriate assets to support the currency. The inevitable legal wrangles between Citi and Wells Fargo over Wachovia continue. Edit: The German government has clarified that it only issued a "political assurance" that no depositor would lose their money and is not actually guaranteeing depositors' money. The Danish guarantee is a financial sector mutual insurance fund. __________________ Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt - Herbert Hoover Last edited by oldfogey; 10-06-2008 at 07:07 AM..

10-06-2008, 02:52 PM	#141
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,416 Images: 25	The DOW is down over 760 points today. Any takers that it'll hit 1,000? __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X "Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door"

10-06-2008, 03:39 PM	#142
jose_jimenez Jonah for prez! Join Date: 01-05-2007 Bike(s): Hurricane Posts: 2,101	Wow that bailout program really seems to have worked............ __________________ http://www.bushslastday.com/