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2 Cylinders, 4 Valves, No Waiting
On a related subject, short of wading through the dense data provided on the FDIC website or purchasing access to one of the for-proft rating services, is there a way to determine an institutions relative exposure to risky mortgages or mortgate-based securities?
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A T-Rex going RAWR!
 Originally Posted by Shenders1
On a related subject, short of wading through the dense data provided on the FDIC website or purchasing access to one of the for-proft rating services, is there a way to determine an institutions relative exposure to risky mortgages or mortgate-based securities?
I was thinking about this this morning as well and I think it's as easy as (if they're a public company) getting their balance sheet and seeing how easily they can cover their debt. IIRC, deposits into, for example, savings accounts are liabilities for banks b/c the "owe" you the money. So keep that in mind. This however wouldn't show you which banks were spending money on healthy activities, vs. bad mortgages for example. Not sure how you'd get at that.
Disclaimer: Not an accountant or CPA for that matter. Just one graduate level accounting course and two undergrad (but that was a long time ago at that...)
There's a point where the increased ability to take risk is not because of increased testicular mass but rather decreased cerebral mass. - Slickwill
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Senior member
FDIC: Bank Rating Services
The FDIC indicates some sources of bank ratings if you want to check.
The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets. - Lysander Spoone
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The hype is low.
Originally Posted by luvtolean
What lesson?
It's pretty easy to link the current situation to the last Savings and Loan debacle, and the government response then. The Moral hazard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia they created with bailouts last time, and the revamp of bankruptcy laws by Bush, has lead us to here. So did we learn not to bail people out this time?
Call me jaded, but I trust the government to do nothing but fuck me out of more of my money, which mark my words, is exactly what is going to happen. There's an election to be bought with my money; both of the candidates, especially Obama and his wealth redistribution scams, are counting on this.
And I'd be in line...
I was thinking a bit more in the past, with the final straw that kicked off the Great Depression by the general public pulling most of their money out of banks, etc. Now that may be a vast generalization, but you see my point.
Furthermore, with people's relative dissatisfaction and mistrust of the government, why would people have their savings in a -Mac financial institution? Mortgages I can understand, but hard currency?
Are you right to be leery of what's going on? Sure. But even despite the changes in recent years in bankruptcy and thlike, I still find it very hard to believe that something massive would happen. Not too long ago, The UK had to do the same with one of their banks, Northern Rock, I believe.
But I do stand with you on your thoughts about Obama and his wealth redistribution plan. It scares the piss out of me, too.
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Senior member
Yes, but our Scottish prime minister ensured that a Scottish bank (Lloyds TSB is registered in Edinburgh) took over the Halifax Bank of Scotland. Hoots mon!
The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets. - Lysander Spoone
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It's not my fault
When Morgan Stanley and Wachovia merge they can call themselves
MS. Wacko
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Do too.
Our gov't does a poor job, due to corporate pressure, of oversight of these businesses. It's long overdue for an overhaul and a recognition that a totally free market is not in the best interests of America.
Much like our conversations of rights and responsibilities when it comes to constitutional law, there are rights and responsibilities when it comes to business, the economy and what's good for America.
If bailouts are a part of saving the economy, then oversight and regulation should be a part of the prevention of what gets us here. That needs to be precluded by an overhaul of the lobbying system, earmarks and Congressional business practices as a whole.
Ducit Amor Patriae
Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
---Leonardo Da Vinci
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Blending
Originally Posted by seamus
Our gov't does a poor job, due to corporate pressure, of oversight of these businesses. It's long overdue for an overhaul and a recognition that a totally free market is not in the best interests of America.
Much like our conversations of rights and responsibilities when it comes to constitutional law, there are rights and responsibilities when it comes to business, the economy and what's good for America.
If bailouts are a part of saving the economy, then oversight and regulation should be a part of the prevention of what gets us here. That needs to be precluded by an overhaul of the lobbying system, earmarks and Congressional business practices as a whole.
Lobbying is a constitutional function despite the drones in the media that like to demonize it. It is the RIGHT of the people to petition their government.
As to earmarks there is an easy fix. Undo what started it and restore the power of impoundment to the presidency.
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like 
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Do too.
Originally Posted by SheepOfBlue
Lobbying is a constitutional function despite the drones in the media that like to demonize it. It is the RIGHT of the people to petition their government.
As to earmarks there is an easy fix. Undo what started it and restore the power of impoundment to the presidency.
I didn't say ban it, I said overhaul it, hippie.
Ducit Amor Patriae
Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
---Leonardo Da Vinci
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Blending
Originally Posted by seamus
I didn't say ban it, I said overhaul it, hippie.
Another limit on free speech like that imposed by McCain? No thanks. Actually the power of impoundment would even help lobbying by maker it harder to give my money to them.
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
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Do too.
You don't even know what my overhaul plan is, how can you call it a limit on free speech?
Hippie.
Ducit Amor Patriae
Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
---Leonardo Da Vinci
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Blending
Originally Posted by seamus
You don't even know what my overhaul plan is, how can you call it a limit on free speech?
Hippie.
Unlike the herd YOU have not announced for '08  Now my plan is to.....
go riding to Blood Mountain 
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
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It's Who You Know That Counts
Originally Posted by ND4SPD
I was visiting with some in-law family over the weekend and most were awfully pissed off.
When I pointed out a great depression costs a hell of a lot of money...they started ranting about conspiracy theory type stuff, and rich guys getting rich. (This was after listening to the tin foil hat shit about solar cells aren't better only because we haven't invested in them...same refrain since the 70s.  )
I didn't bother to point out in a depression the rich guys buy companies cheap, the middle class goes poor, the poor get skinny...
"It's not debt per se that overwhelms an individual, corporation, or country. Rather, it is the continuous increase in debt in relation to income that causes trouble." --Warren Buffett
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Blending
Check item #58 in the tin foil thread and say you are not mad. I understand your point but not only is the bailout getting loaded with socialist crap, give away to buddies, and rewarding bad habits now it seems it might be funding greedy people overseas also
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
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Senior member
Sheep, you may be a technical expert in many areas, but monetary policy is not one of them. May I suggest you recruit a Treasury Secretary on your team.
The creative destruction of capital in a recession is a natural part of capitalism, but even the most extreme of the Austrian school would still argue in favour of maintaining the general supply of money to avoid a general deflation of prices. If banks are contracting their balance sheets as today, then the government must expand its balance sheet to compensate.
The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets. - Lysander Spoone
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Blending
Originally Posted by oldfogey
Sheep, you may be a technical expert in many areas, but monetary policy is not one of them. May I suggest you recruit a Treasury Secretary on your team.
The creative destruction of capital in a recession is a natural part of capitalism, but even the most extreme of the Austrian school would still argue in favour of maintaining the general supply of money to avoid a general deflation of prices. If banks are contracting their balance sheets as today, then the government must expand its balance sheet to compensate thus you must contract yours.
Fixed it for you. Oh and I am not an expert at anything. Read a bunch of topics due to my attention span being a bit short 
If everything tastes like chicken..... what does chicken taste like
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Senior member
The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets. - Lysander Spoone
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Age of bike + rider = 78 !!
A modest proposal.
 Let Sheep think it's serious.
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed
by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
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Originally Posted by CBRVFR
A modest proposal.
Let Sheep think it's serious.
Sounds to me like a very sound plan...
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Senior member
AIG wrote $1trn of Credit default swaps. If AIG went under, this $1trn default would be transferred to the rest of the financial system. GM and Ford are financial institutions with car-making sidelines. GE is a financial institution with mutiple engineering sidelines. You cannot imagine the potential carnage.
Edit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7635256.stm
House of Representatives wants to lend $25bn to the car makers.
Last edited by oldfogey; 09-25-2008 at 08:33 AM.
The only security men can have for their political liberty, consists in keeping their money in their own pockets. - Lysander Spoone
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Age of bike + rider = 78 !!
Originally Posted by oldfogey
AIG wrote $1trn of Credit default swaps. If AIG went under, this $1trn default would be transferred to the rest of the financial system. GM and Ford are financial institutions with car-making sidelines. GE is a financial institution with mutiple engineering sidelines. You cannot imagine the potential carnage.
Edit: BBC NEWS | Business | Car giants set to get $25bn loan
House of Representatives wants to lend $25bn to the car makers.
Please explain this a bit - Does that mean they bought out bad or risky loans from other financial institutions for a discount, in hopes that they'd eventually see a profit for them one way or the other?
Wouldn't an excessive amount of that create an unstable balance sheet?  I have a hard time understanding big-business finance. All the small businesses I have known that took that approach are gone. Financial conservatism = survival at this 'micro' level, IMO.
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