Thread: Heat Pump advice

Originally Posted by Hammer

Getting ready to install (have it done really) a heat pump. I currently have baseboard heat with a large window A/C unit for cooling. I am tired of paying $300 a month for heating in the house. I have a rather small home (1200sq ft) home with 3 bedrooms. I have to have duct work and all done. I have gotten 1 estimate and have another company getting on together right now. I am looking at about a 2 - 2.5 ton unit. with a 14 sear rating. I do not need the latest and greatest, I just need something that will work and save me some $$$$.

Advise?

Suggestions?

What brand is good?

How cold does it get there in the winter?

Originally Posted by DUX

How cold does it get there in the winter?

It can get quite low. Average low winter temps are around 10-20 but on occasion can drop to around -15 or so. But it usually does not stay there long, if it goes down that low.

Originally Posted by evl_twn

Do you have natural gas where you're at (and I don't mean you personally, even if you DID just have Taco Bell) or are you relying on just electric? If you have gas, or can set up an LP tank, you might be better off with a regular furnace with a/c.

No natural gas here, I hate to go with LP due to the fluctuation in pricing. Atleast with electric, the rates are somewhat steady and regulated. The utilities have to go to either a board of directors or the Public service commission to get a rate increase. LP does not have to.

In my limited experience, heat pumps are better suited for more mild climates.

They don't work all that well when it's really cold, and the "back-up" mode uses quite a bit of electricity that can get EXPENSIVE. I'm sure they are better now, but the heat was never actually "hot" on really cold days.

We ripped ours out of our old house, installed gas, and never looked back.

In our current house, we have LP. We were provided with the option of "locking in" a price early and took it last winter. It turned out to be a good move.

Originally Posted by DUX

We were provided with the option of "locking in" a price early and took it last winter. It turned out to be a good move.

But that is for a limited time frame though. LP is crazy here.

Originally Posted by Hammer

But that is for a limited time frame though. LP is crazy here.

I don't know what the right answer is. All I can tell you is that the air that came out of our heat pump was tepid at best by the time it made it down into our living room.

In fact, the pump was so poor that in the winter we had to get an electric oil-filled radiator that sat between two chairs for my wife and I while we watched TV.

Modern pumps are better, but you may use more electricity than you expect.

Did you ever call your local power company? Many will have audits that you can do for little or free. I think you are on the right track and agree with you on the gas though. If you can get an audit it is likely that you can get feedback from someone that is not trying to sell something.

Yep. Indiana - Duke Energy Check the section out and it is free The other thing you can do is get a WATTmeter but from your description I am betting that the majority of your electricity is climate control followed a distant second by water heating. Your new fridge means that it is likely reasonable. Possibly a He washer would lower water usage but if you do most on cold the savings would be smaller since you are part way there.

DUX is correct on using the strips with a heat pump. One key is to not fluctuate the temp a long way in the cold since they work so much better in smaller increments that the savings of turning it down at times can be offset.

Originally Posted by DUX

In my limited experience, heat pumps are better suited for more mild climates.

We actually did some heat pump analysis when I was in college for one of my thermodynamics classes, and this was exactly the conclusion we reached.

Actually, even in mild climates they didn't have all that much going for them compared to modern heat/AC units. (I've never known a Californian with one either. In fact, first time I heard about them was in college.)

A guy at work belongs to a LP "club" who buys propane futures for the group at set prices. Saves them pretty big bucks. Also, the members tend to buy big tanks, as higher volumes get you more price breaks, 500 gallon isn't unusual.

One advantage of heat pumps (though I doubt it's one you will use) is the way they are designed to provide AC even during freezing outside temps. Not wanting to invest a fortune in an alcohol or water based interior AC system for my datacenter/machine room, I purchased a 5 ton exterior full heat pump system and pad mounted it outside next to the room. It has a preheat circuit for the compressor and a vapor extraction system that keeps it from freezing even below -10 F.

For heat, the data equipment creates around 4K BTU and I capture the return extraction and circulate it into the office during the winter.

Originally Posted by abtech

One advantage of heat pumps (though I doubt it's one you will use) is the way they are designed to provide AC even during freezing outside temps.

Yeah, industrial applications are totally different.

A heat pump would have rockin' efficiency using freezing air to cool with.


I wish I hadn't thrown all that stuff away, but using a heat pump as a heater below freezing has a dismal efficiency. So bad we were actually laughing at it in class.

No data here but we lived in a condo in NC a couple of years ago that was heated by a heat pump. Once the outside temp got below 28*F it was almost useless. It would keep the condo no warmer than about 58* inside. The condo was about 1200 sq. ft. IIRC. After a pretty harsh cold snap that lasted almost a week, we vowed we would never have a house that was heated by heat pump.

They rarely install heat pumps even in Texas - most installations are Gas Furnace/AC combos that work well IMHO.

Most heat pumps that are installed in Michigan always have an external gas/LP furnace module that is ordered with them. These seem to work fine and can be adjusted to react to a "smart" outdoor thermostat that runs in a feedback loop with the internal thermostat. This way, on mild days the heat pump works as designed, but when the efficiency drops below an adjustable threshold, it reverts to the furnace. Since I knew I didn't want any heat, I ordered mine sans furnace and it certainly does the job for my application.

Heat pumps are very popular in SC and in my opinion, useless.

OK, decided to go with the Bryant Evolution system with variable fan and dual stage pump.

This is after many attempts to get estimates.

Company one: real nice guy, very informative, but had a neighbor that had and is continuing to have issues with them. Prices were OK on some stuff but he was very proud of the higher end units.
13 seer was $8,600 single stage
15 seer was $9,200 single stage
16 seer evolution system was $12,000

Company 2: was told not to worry about wasting time getting a bid for me after he was telling me where the vents were going to go due to his size (BIG DUDE 300lbs + Big) or he could have his 15 year old son put in the ducts. No thanks, no 15 year old kid is cuttingholes in my home.

Company 3: was 1.5 hrs late to the appointment. And one hr late after his office called to say he would be here in 15 minutes. I did talk to him after many appoligies from him. But still have not received a bid from his company.

Company 4: sniffed too much freon. He asked minimal questions and did not even ask or look where vent placement was going to be.
14 seer unit $9,600

Company 5: local guy, he does the A/C at my work. I figure if he can get that old shit to run, he is good enough for me. Ended up he was at Putnam Park when I crashed back in 2005. But the guy was real helpful, and explained everything to us in terms we could understand, even the wifey nodded like she understood. He give me a few options, but went with his suggestion of the Evolution system from Bryant. Dual stage heat pump, and variable speed air handler with a 4" filter. Metal duct trunk line duct work with flex tubing to the vents, 3 smaller returns and one mail return in the hallway, 10 year parts and labor warranty for $9,650.
He will be installing it while I am on the track at Grattan.

Update on this system.

It is efficient and has saved me $$

last March my usage was 3,384kwh and this March it was 1,358kwh

listed below is my usage. I had this system installed last year in July, so a good comparison would start around August.

Duke bill.JPG

Even bigger when you consider there was likely a rate increase in that time.