Thread: Vista or Apple?

iMac all the way. Worst comes to worse and should you need Windows for anything you can get Parallels and run Windows from within OS X. If you can, wait 'til April or so however. That's when the new version of OS X is due to be released roughly.

Or a Mac mini. If you plan on doing HD stuff though be sure you get one with enough power (HD decoding takes a bit). As for the music and video (creation) I think the MAC is much better for a hobbyist. Quicken '07 is fine for a Mac.

Now for the bad news. The current rumors are that the next Mac version of Office will not support Visual Basic for Applications and no version comes with Access.

On the Mac news N wireless seems to be pretty much standard on the new models which is cool. There is a built in Firewall in Macs that is fairly trivial and I run no virus s/w (I think that the virus thing is not as bad as most protray it on 'doz unless you are surfing porn sites and such)

By the time you build a Mini up enough to be worth anything you could easily buy an iMac. There are usually very good deals to be had on refurbs as well which come with the same warranty as the new ones.

You got answers from a buncha computer nerds, who hate Dell, Microsoft and others, so far.

Apple will require more of a learning curve than a Vista based one.

I doubt you'll see much of a difference in the performance of the two, though the Apple will look prettier and smell of stanky hippies.

Why are you thinking Vista? Get a dual or quad core PC and run XP.
Every program you currently have will have to be re-purchased, or not be available at all if you go Apple.

Plus the stanky hippie part LTL brought up.
He been repped.

Originally Posted by beedy

Why are you thinking Vista? Get a dual or quad core PC and run XP.
Every program you currently have will have to be re-purchased, or not be available at all if you go Apple.

XP Pro is still available for purchase, but probably won't be for much longer unless you're a business. If staying Microsoft do as beedy said. At this time there is zero reason for anyone to upgrade to Vista. The only thing it has is a flashy new interface(which only runs if you have monster hardware to run it) and a whole lot of bugs along with a long list of incompatibilities. XP is patched well and is very stable.

I'm sure someone will chime in that you can dual boot the new Apples, but I just don't see the value. Apple has done a good job getting cost out of their machines, and they are now getting to, or at parity with the cost/performance ratio of WinBoxes.

Unless you have a specific need to be filled, stick with a Windows based machine.

I just watched some lady blow it at a conference last week with her Apple laptop. I don't know the name but it was one of the sexy high end duo core machines, MacBook Pro or whatever. Apparently they don't have the regular plug for a projector, only the new DVI format, that nobody uses for a projector, so she's running around trying to figure out how to get her silly Apple presentation into a format and onto a memory stick for use on a Windows laptop. In front of an auditorium of 100 people. Yes, you can use an adapter for this, but you have to realize your Apple shit is different.

Totally silly, just buy what everyone else has...unless you are a true computer expert and can anticipate and handle problems most don't understand, yourself.

Originally Posted by colryn

From this statement, does that mean that if you are not computer savy, you need to buy a Windows box?

If my computer breaks, I have to ask for help sometimes, if that's what you mean. (That's what NDD is for ) I am no IT expert, for sure. Nor do I want to be just so I can have an Apple.

I use software that needs Windows, and that is the OS I know best anyway. I have messed around with Unix based a bit to get out of some of the limitations of Windows memory capabilities (which I have overrun numerous times with models that get out to millions of DOF) but I don't know it, and learning OSX on top of that won't run most engineering software anyway.

Our company has a strong anti-Apple IT policy. Even our Apple account manager has a Dell.

There is just no good reason for me to run an Apple. Nor for 95+% of users.

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I can wait till April, so that's one good piece of advice if I go Apple, and XP rather than Vista is clear for now for pc. Price doesn't seem to be an issue if I compare a quiet media pc with iMac.

Putting a complementary question, then: if I went with a quiet media pc with XP, what is the easy to install and update firewall / virus software that poses fewest conflict problems with other software?

We've used the corporate versions of McAfee and Symantec at work.

We now use Symantec. I've never had a conflict with Symantec, but I don't remember any with McAfee either.

Just set either one up for automatic updates and you're good to go.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

We've used the corporate versions of McAfee and Symantec at work.

We now use Symantec. I've never had a conflict with Symantec, but I don't remember any with McAfee either.

Just set either one up for automatic updates and you're good to go.

Speaking from an enterprise perspective - McAfee is a complete joke.

Symantec is heading that way very fast. During the last 3 business days I've spent no less than 5 HOURS on hold with them waiting for support for various products.

Trend Micro is a very good alternative.

That being said, I don't care what kind of virus or firewall protection you put on a computer; if it's plugged into an external network connection(be it broad band or dialup) it's vulnerable. If you store data on your computer that you don't want anyone to have, isolate it from the outside world. If someone wants something on that computer bad enough, they'll get to it or wreck it trying to do so.

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

That being said, I don't care what kind of virus or firewall protection you put on a computer; if it's plugged into an external network connection(be it broad band or dialup) it's vulnerable. If you store data on your computer that you don't want anyone to have, isolate it from the outside world. If someone wants something on that computer bad enough, they'll get to it or wreck it trying to do so.

Exactly the point of my online banking thread...

There are actually very good intrusion detection, prevention and controlling devices for large enterprises. I said it in another thread either here or FBo, but I do security for a corporate credit union, and it is VERY secure.
However, at the home level, ND is right for the most part. Most people don't want to spend a dime on software, let alone $50 for a cheap software firewall app, but if you even spend a couple hundred on a decent appliance like a SonicWall, Watchguard, etc home device you will be light years ahead of your neighbors, and make enough of a noise that hackers would rather move on to the next victim. A TZ150 is only in the mid $200s and will secure your home very well.
Trend's antivirus is better than Symantec and McAfee at the enterprise level, and they also make a great home antivirus package. CA makes a good antivirus app and even a decent firewall app.
But most firewall apps are going to be a bigger headache to setup than most people are willing to deal with.
Along those same lines, most people either won't want to or don't have the knowledge to set up proper rulebases for security appliances as well.
You can always just hit the "lockdown" button on your firewall that completely detaches your internal network from the outside world when not using the web as well. But it is typically not necessary.

Digital theft is no different than physical theft. If you spend the time to make your stuff reasonably secure, it will take more time than it is worth to most thieves and they will move on to an easier target.
I am completely comfortable with my home network security. And the security guarding the credit union information will never cause me to lose a blink of sleep.

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Speaking from an enterprise perspective - McAfee is a complete joke.

Symantec is heading that way very fast. During the last 3 business days I've spent no less than 5 HOURS on hold with them waiting for support for various products.

Trend Micro is a very good alternative.

We just moved to Cisco (hard and software) from Symantec at work for that same reason.

Trend micro +1.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Unless you have a specific need to be filled, stick with a Windows based machine.

Thus my recommendations. He stated mostly art type stuff in his description of needs. I caveated that with the limitations I thought 'doz is better at I do think that Macs are better for video and pictures, though you can get the job done on 'doz also.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Totally silly, just buy what everyone else has...unless you are a true computer expert and can anticipate and handle problems most don't understand, yourself.

are you recommending people just be.....

Sheep

Originally Posted by SheepOfBlue

Thus my recommendations. He stated mostly art type stuff in his description of needs. I caveated that with the limitations I thought 'doz is better at I do think that Macs are better for video and pictures, though you can get the job done on 'doz also.

I haven't used Mac based art apps, but the trend in rendering has been to Doz boxes.

When it comes to a tool, like a computer, I see no reason to bother with hassles to distinguish myself, provided the tool most are using works arguably as well.

Originally Posted by oldfogey

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I can wait till April, so that's one good piece of advice if I go Apple, and XP rather than Vista is clear for now for pc. Price doesn't seem to be an issue if I compare a quiet media pc with iMac.

Time for an update, please, now April is passed. Vista seems to be sorted now and is getting high marks from the audio / video crowd. In fact the digital audio people say core duo 2 plus Vista gives the best sound quality. The new Apple Leopard OS is out too.

I stuck with my old pc and XP (helped by work sticking with XP too) in the interim, bought a 500MG external hard disc to be getting on with at little cost.

What do you think are the current relative pros and cons of the operating systems?

One thing on getting a Mac is it can run Vista also. I dislike Windows though and only use it when paid, MS Streets or lap timer s/w.

You might go play some and ask questions in a Mac store though
Apple Retail Store - Store List

Looks like y'all have about 15 or so. Likely they can give you options on s/w better than I can as I know there is differences on that side of the pond

Microsoft is already working on Windows 7, more or less admitting Vista is a flop. Many developers have said that they will continue developing for XP. PC OEMs are also allowing users to order computers with XP loaded even though they're technically buying Vista(the EULA allows this). If you stick with Microsoft, stick with XP. Otherwise, get an Apple.

Originally Posted by ONEvcs

If you are going to just listen to stuff, or watch videos / movies / pictures, I'd stick with a Windows based PC.

If you're going to be editing music / pictures / video, I'd go with Apple, if nothing else, just cause it's easier and faster to use, files are smaller, and tools abound.

i.e.
To fit a sound file so that its length fits with the video (without modifying the sound noticeably), becomes a chore in Windows. With a Mac it takes but a few clicks. I haven't done this myself but I've seen it done.

To watch that video once it's finished, the difference shouldn't be that noticeable if you have good video and sound cards on the PC. With the Mac they're a given.

As sheepish as it was the final FBo event DVD was 100% Mac created. Since then tools have gotten even better (and time to compress, etc. has also gotten much better)

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I'm sure someone will chime in that you can dual boot the new Apples, but I just don't see the value. Apple has done a good job getting cost out of their machines, and they are now getting to, or at parity with the cost/performance ratio of WinBoxes.

Unless you have a specific need to be filled, stick with a Windows based machine.

I just watched some lady blow it at a conference last week with her Apple laptop. I don't know the name but it was one of the sexy high end duo core machines, MacBook Pro or whatever. Apparently they don't have the regular plug for a projector, only the new DVI format, that nobody uses for a projector, so she's running around trying to figure out how to get her silly Apple presentation into a format and onto a memory stick for use on a Windows laptop. In front of an auditorium of 100 people. Yes, you can use an adapter for this, but you have to realize your Apple shit is different.

Totally silly, just buy what everyone else has...unless you are a true computer expert and can anticipate and handle problems most don't understand, yourself.

When you buy a Mac, you're getting a sort-of software/hardware certified system. Its a little different. I like it and I like knowing that its pretty standardized. But there are still those annoying quirks...



I write this as I'm watching my WD raptor mounted to a USB adapter copy "My Documents" off to another drive so I can recover from the dreaded XPSP3 AMD (INTELCPU driver) debacle...


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