Fig

So here's my situation. I have done pretty well for myself so far. I have been a software engineer for close to 15 years now. I have the most experience in some offbeat languages like FoxPro. Regardless, I find myself lately doing admin work in WebSphere and Portal. I make a decent amount of money and can't complain. I was on a phone call the other day and found that a lot of the jobs in my area are being shipped "offshore" which, while I am safe for the moment leaves me with an uneasy feeling about the future. My problem is, I don't have a degree. All of my success has been hard fought, and self learned. My wife is finishing up her thesis for her Doctorate and has encouraged me to get back to school and get a degree so that at least I have a leg to stand on if I find myself back in the position of interviewing.

Now here's where I have a problem. I am closing in on 40, and having to decide what I want to do when I grow up. I have years experience in software development and server admin but I am not sure I want a degree in computer science. I am leaning more toward Electronic Engineering, or Computer Engineering. Of course, I have also spent some time thinking about something in the field of Law, or even Accounting. I know no one else can help me choose, but I am wondering about how I can use this degree once I have it. It would be really hard for me to change fields where I would have to be an apprentice, like an electrician, or such, but I know that not many jobs walk out of college with a six figure income.

Anyone else pulling the same stunt as me? Thoughts? Suggestions?

SheepOfBlue

Nope I am what I am yet they pay me

The question is not the degree but what you want to do. It sounds like your programming has been in Web and Database work so far, do you like it? If so a EE (Electrical Engineering or Computer Engineering may not get you were you want to go. However both of those degrees transfer to a lot of trades. Also they can get you into the wonderful world of embedded programming But again it is what you like not what to do. I have worked with people that liked database work and lots of indirection (read Ada ) yet thought me insane for liking to head down to the bit level (suggested using a disassembler one time and almost cleared the room). From my limited knowledge a BSEE seems a bit more intense than a BSCE. And be aware that there is a LOT of math in a BSEE.

Good luck and find something you like to do as that is worth a lot.

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When the past is allowed to fade to nothing then only chaos is left.

Fig

Let me expand on your thoughts. I have done a range of programming from an app used in Dr. offices to cgi scripts for a mainframe web server. I am currently working on (as a hobby) a program for my 8bit Atari that I will be turning into a cartridge, and am using 6502 assembler. I am just not too sure that I want to, or can even get back into programming as it seems that most of the code lately that I deploy as an admin comes from "offshore". It does sound crazy, but this is a chance for me to head off in a different direction after years of work doing what I love to do. Maybe I just need a change.

When I say electrical engineering, I am speaking of electronics, not work for the local electric utility. I would love to design circuits per say. Now whether that can match my current income is questionable, even after years of experience. I would hope that it would.

I am curious if anyone on here has made a career change mid stride? Worse comes to worse, I get a degree, and continue on with my current job and employer, and can just sit back and say, yeah, I have a degree. It's not like I have to do this to continue work. It's just something I want to do, but I do question my sanity sometimes.

Mojave954

Try a Mechanical Engineer. WHY? Cause those guys really get to play in all the fields and you WILL NEVER go without work. And since you are Saugus you know very well the big three in Palmdale will HOOK YOU up on completion.

Good luck.

Edit:

Just so everyone knows, they are predicting a shortage of engineers in about 15 yrs. Baby boomers were the last big push, gen x &Y don't seem interested or it is too hard. Defense industry needs engineers. WHY? Foriegners can't get the clearances. Also, we need people back in the trades for the same reason. Right now there are only 6-7% of current college students enrolled in the engineering fields.

Sad my fellow Americans, very sad.

ONEvcs

I agree with SOB, as much as it hurts saying that, with figering out what is it you really like to do.
I'll be 40 y.o. this year and I've been persuing an engineering degree since 2000, with many interruptions obviously. I'm not taking any classes right now but I'm hopping I'll be back soon.
In my experience, figuring out what it is I want to end up doing when I grow up is harder than actually doing it.

Stay away from accounting. You'll be bored within two weeks and you'll damn the day you decided to do it when you have to work every quarter and year end, including 4th of July, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, etc.

You're very correct that only you can take the final decision.
Good luck.

Aychdot

It must be a thing that 39 year-olds think about. I am 39 and I know That I probably can't change jobs and make the money that I make now without a degree. I say go for it! The hardest part for me is starting the first class. I got the basic stuff out of the way a long time ago, now I need to get back in the groove.

DON'T WAIT GET STARTED!!!!!!

Fig

I am on the way now. I have registered.

For me, it's just going to be the process of picking a path. I would like the mechanical engineering, but not sure how much. Electronics would really be where I wanted to go. It's what I wanted to do when I was looking at college back in the 80's. Accounting wouldn't be too bad, as I do like numbers, and math, and have a relative who has turned his accounting firm into a fairly lucrative business.

Maybe it's time to break out the 20 sided die and roll a saving throw.

SheepOfBlue

Be ready to repeat what they want sometimes rather than what is correct on occasion (a major sheep flaw is the inability to do so convincingly )

__________________
When the past is allowed to fade to nothing then only chaos is left.

abtech

I have changed my primary occupation twice in the past 30 years and both times (while being a bitch for everyone around me) were for the better. My education is formally electronics engineer, but the original undergrad program was in record engineering/acoustics.

Shifting gears mid life can be daunting, but if done for the right reasons can work out well (at least in my experience). I would love to go back to school and work on a doctorate but time, life and current endeavors sort of rule that out for the time being . . .

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Mojave954

If you do indeed go the EE route or any other route in engineering and wish to work for LM, BOEING, NORTHTHROP look into their INTERN programs. Why? One will help give you insite and two, you will be able to get your clearance paperwork started that way when you do go looking after graduation you have your clearance and that is HUGE!

Just something I noticed after being in the civilian sector awhile. Got my job cause of those things and they taught me what I needed to know.

luvtolean

Not so sad for us MEs ...I expect my pay to outpace most fields for the reasons you mention, and I will be ~20 yrs in industry around the end of the boomer retirements...not a bad position to be in to slot into a very lucrative vacated high level position.

Still, my fiance will make more base pay in her first year out of law school than I make now...

Fig, I just read a great article about engineering stuff, and 95% of engineers are happy with their profession and would recommend it to others. It's not the most lucrative of careers (though the majority of Fortune 500 CEOs are engineers), but you are in a prime location as an American citizen...you'll pretty much always have a job.

Challenge your assumptions on EE pay too BTW. I don't know what you make now, a few years out of school, it'd be normal to be making 6 figures, and in some companies, your stock and other bonuses could end up being quite a chunk. I've never had less than 25% over my base pay in stock and various bonuses.

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Fig

Again, thanks all for the replies. I am waiting to hear from the school so I can talk to a counselor and set up my classes. I honestly think I will have about a year or so to really mull this over while I get the general classes out of the way. I am leaning toward EE, and even ME. So tell me about your ME job. The only discussion I have had is with my Dad, who worked in the electronics field back in the late 60's/early 70's with Texas Instruments and Varo. He has his little tales of the ME guys coming in wearing a suit and by the end of the day they were down to a shirt and slacks with their ties shredded. Kind of funny the way he tells it, but I am sure things have changed.

Mojave, I will look into the intern programs, but, and this is a big one, I am not sure I can take the pay cut, unless my wife finishes her doctoral thesis. Hopefully this year. And the pay cut issue is a big one at this time. It's just not easy to step backward even though you know that in the future it's better. Just something we will have to consider as things go along. At least it won't blindside me.

I figure if worse comes to worse, at the least, I will be able to go into an interview with the ability to say I have a degree, even if it's not in my current field. Right now, I have to get by on looks and previous experience. I worry about having to interview again and only having my stunning good looks to get me the job.

SheepOfBlue

One thing I did not add. You might consider getting the intro classes at a 2 year school if possible. Easier competition so you can ramp up with less damage to the grade point. Less $$$ for the same credits. I didn't do this but with hind sight would have.

__________________
When the past is allowed to fade to nothing then only chaos is left.

luvtolean

Fig, if you need to be convinced of any kind of engineering degree, you're not ready. It's a terribly difficult major for most, with a very very high attrition rate at most schools. I just read the numbers (so I should remember the exact number), but I remember it as roughly half of the students that start out thinking they want to become engineers don't make it.

And most of those students don't have families.

As far as ROI, my GF is just about to graduate from law school as I have mentioned before. If we take her (lost) salary over those years, and add it to tuition, we believe it cost her roughly half a million bucks to go to law school.

With that said, I don't think ROI is the best measure, you have to do what makes you happy, there isn't a price to put on career happiness as it influences everything.

MEs are employed in varying numbers in literally every industry. It probably is the most diverse technical degree; any company that designs and manufactures a physical product uses MEs. My job is a bit unusual, but maybe gives an idea of how diverse MEs are.

Noticing the increasing convergence of mechanical and electrical engineering in the stuff that interests me most, I actually declared a dual ME/EE major in my junior year of school. A friend convinced me to quit with that noise, finish up only my ME, as having a bachelor's in EE wouldn't earn me more cash anyway, and I could get into industry during the boom that was going on. Only getting me ME was probably a good move (and sign on bonuses for engineers in the late 90's to the bust were fantastic!), but it gives me perspective on both degrees.

Most MEs really struggle with their mandatory EE subjects. And most EEs have the same issues with ME stuff too. As a programmer, you'd probably feel most comfortable in EE, by a wide margin. EE, or Computer Engineering are the most logical extensions....though there is plenty of programming related stuff in the ME fields (from controls systems ie traction control, to creating programs for mechanical simulation), most MEs aren't focused on that type of thing.

Due to the great time we got out, and the fact everyone was hiring, people from my class went to work at companies from Autodesk to Pratt and Whitney's jet engine division (the lowest job offer of them all by almost 50% interestingly).

I work for a semiconductor company. I did this because I was pretty much able to create my job, and it included lots of travel which I wanted.

Nobody wears a tie anymore, unless it's Asian or European customer visit day. (I joke I only wear a tie for a million bucks.) But I do normally wear my badge on a Suzuka neck lanyard, and have damn near had it tore off a few times.

A few years ago I built a surface mount applications lab. This is a lab with production type electronics assembly equipment. We build all sorts of prototype stuff out there, and this is the type of equipment that can tear off (or dissolve, or glue, or burn) dangly bits if you're not careful. If you work in a wafer fab, you're messing with gasses that are truly nasty, stuff that is pyrophoric (ignites in air) to really strong acids...

Until last month I worked for marketing. As the only ME on this team, I've been responsible to do anything related to the mechanical aspects of electronic components, from PCB design and board mount processing to thermal management. I've spent a whole bunch of time in third world factories helping customers work through manufacturing issues with our advanced products, which has been interesting, though after 1/2 million flight miles, I am thoroughly sick of travelling. I also do marketing oriented stuff, and over the last couple of years have increasingly been given responsibility for determining the division's roadmap for future technologies. As a logical extension of this, I now report to a senior product director.

With offshoring, MEs in consumer goods related industries, especially those who weren't doing hardcore analysis, have become more integrated into project management, and sales/marketing type roles stateside. MUCH less manufacturing oriented stuff.

It is really hard to keep "analyst" type MEs overseas, and there still aren't many worth a damn outside the "industrialized" countries. So we still pay good money to MEs who are capable at simulation stateside. Probably always will. It also is a much more secure way of keeping your IP. There are lots of articles in industry right now saying this type of engineer is no longer needed and it's more important to learn Chinese or accounting. Don't believe that bullshit for a second.

Other industries and regions will have a far different look at things. SoCal is a hotbed for MEs and they're still employed in literally every industry there. It's good for EEs too of course. Military/defense has a nice benefit of no offshoring, and it's local to you. My Dad's business mostly served mil companies here in the Bay Area and watching it decimated with the Clinton cuts of the 90s, and the Bay Area whacko politicians driving the bases out locally, has always made me nervous of working in that industry. Though that's probably not a totally justified fear and plenty of engineers spend their whole careers in defense.

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The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

slickwill

I wanted to become a ME, I wasn't smart enough so I went to medical school instead.

Not entirely joking on that either.

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luvtolean

I paid for all of my education and did all of my math, physics and lower division generals at a community college. It was cheaper, but that was a false economy for me as a full-time student, who didn't need to start at low level (sub-calculus) math. I'd have graduated at least a year earlier had I went directly to a university.

Easier? My physics prof was hell on wheels, and drove some kids out to university early. We started out with 70 kids in first semester physics. ~30 made it through. By third semester physics, only 8 of us from that class were left. His curriculum was harder than the local university as in his words he didn't know if his kids were going to State, or to Stanford. He wanted us all prepared for Stanford.


Like abtech I'm currently trying to justify a PhD, and even did a few classes years back, but life things, and other projects compete.

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The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

abtech

Oh I can justify it.

If for nothing more than being able to make crazy assertions on internet forums and then stating I'm a Doctor, so I must be right; it will pay for itself many times over .

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luvtolean

And I'd ask you what the hell a post hole digger knows about reality.

__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

SheepOfBlue

I am sure it varies but here the tuition is lower and there is no need to start at a level below calculus one unless you are unqualified (then starting lower is a good thing) As to easier I did not mean the material as it should be the same. However my knowledge of two years is the student body is less competitive (helps if grading on a curve) and the instructors more available and helpful. Just my thoughts and I have no studies etc to back them up merely discussions with degreed people locally.

PhD.... Dr Sheep ..... Evil Overlord Dr Sheep.... hmmm nope I think I will keep learning but have to settle for my BS

You don't need a PhD for that..... or so I have herd

__________________
When the past is allowed to fade to nothing then only chaos is left.

luvtolean

Which is why I said what I did. I know people who started at basic math in college and got engineering degrees. Those people absolutely do not belong at universities to start.

I was ready to start as a true first year engineering student (which assumes Calc 1 1st semester) and since I was at that level, and I was a full time student, it was, in hindsight, a bad move to spend time at a community college on my part. Community college will slow you down, and their counseling is almost universally not helpful (they do their best to get you to take classes you just don't need).

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The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

Fig

First, thanks for the extremely detailed response. I knew this was the right place to ask. I think the reason I am on the fence here is what you mentioned later, doing things that interest me. While I love electronics, I also really enjoy making things. While I don't have a machine shop in my garage, I am able to make do most of the time with the things I attempt. I enjoy that. I also realize that there are two completely different paths here with a mountain of info that needs to be learned. I just have to decide which one flips my skirt more.

As far as classes, I am looking at this from a totally different perspective than when I was 17. What I didn't realize back then was life was full of a lot more and difficult challenges than school. The pressure of keeping a job while supporting a family has been way more scary at times than a class.

G-ForceJunkie

I've been out of town since last wed. and just ran across this thread. It couldn't have been more timely. I also have been doing the old life contiplation thing lately. It usualy boils down to making more money=needing more education. Fig, I would love to hear what you find out about ME related classes at COC. Dennis, shoot me your email addy in a PM, I got some questions for ya.

Mike

luvtolean

Cell number is still the same too dude, feel free to call me.

__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill