Off-road vehicles a danger to kids

ND4SPD · 07-03-2007, 08:43 AM

ATVs Not the Only Off-Road Danger to Kids - Yahoo! News

Can't wait to see the regulation some idiot politician is going to try to put out because of this.

gt702 · 07-03-2007, 09:18 AM

Well, the children are already supposed to be under the supervision of adults ... so maybe the adults who buy these things should be forced to sit in a class and learn the proper way to operate them and suppervise/train the young so they don't get hurt.

Oh, and we should outlaw trees. I know a lot of kids who got hurt from falling out of them. We should only have bushes.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 09:20 AM

Nice timing, as we're about to give a quad to our 5 year old later today.

I like this statement: "The most common injuries were contusions/abrasions (28.3 percent), fractures (24.2 percent), and lacerations (20 percent), Collins noted."

Raise your hand if you made it through childhood with no scratches, bruises or breaks.

luvtolean · 07-03-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade

Nice timing, as we're about to give a quad to our 5 year old later today.

I like this statement: "The most common injuries were contusions/abrasions (28.3 percent), fractures (24.2 percent), and lacerations (20 percent), Collins noted."

Raise your hand if you made it through childhood with no scratches, bruises or breaks.

I'll bet you a dollah there is no statistical difference in those numbers between ATVs and bicycles.

When I was 8, Dad bought us a pure evil 3 wheeler.

bda116 · 07-03-2007, 09:53 AM

Ah yes, the old three wheelers. Good thing there wasn't a nanny-state back then when we were all killing ourselves with them, eh?

It's amazing any of us made it to our 30s with all those evil cars we drvie on a daily basis causing bruises, scratches and broken bones. I think they should be outlawed as well.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 09:54 AM

I was just thinking about our neighbor's boy who went face-first into the pavement last year on his bicycle. He was going down the modest slope (nothing like Pete's driveway whatsoever) that leads to our cul-de-sac. I think we can regulate the speed on the quad to keep him from going much faster than he could on a bike.

luvtolean · 07-03-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bda116

Ah yes, the old three wheelers. Good thing there wasn't a nanny-state back then when we were all killing ourselves with them, eh?

My great-grandparents wached the 60 minutes special on how we were all going to die on that thing.

So they taped up some scare monger articles on their fridge out at the ranch.

I told them they were more than welcome to buy me a shiny new YZ80 and I'd never ride the 110 again...kinda ended the discussion.

abtech · 07-03-2007, 11:47 AM

" Overall, accidents have jumped 86 percent -- from 70,500 injuries in 1990 to 130,900 injuries in 2003, the experts said."

Last time I checked, the population grew significantly during that same time period:
From another article:

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than four million babies are born in the United States each year, and that number is steadily on the rise. Between 2002 and 2004, the national birth rate climbed 2 percent to more than 4.1 million births. Last October, the United States Census Bureau estimated that the nation's population hit 300 million"

Sort of makes their statistics less significant than they appear. Based on the above figures, there were some 52 million more people in the US in 2003 than in 1990 that their statistics don't address.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 01:33 PM

There are liars, damn liars, and statisticians...

TraumaOne · 07-03-2007, 02:11 PM

Personally, I have seen some severe injuries from ATV's. I don't have the numbers to support it, but I would swear I saw, by far, more ATV injuries than MC injuries. Almost exclusively because people are idiots... drunk, riding at night and running accross a busy highway, young stupid, doing tricks without helemts... you get the idea. I think they are very dangerous, but mainly because people don't seem to realize that they can be... and don't take safety seriously on them.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 02:14 PM

Your post doesn't tell me that the ATV is dangerous.

luvtolean · 07-03-2007, 02:14 PM

I anectdotally believe 3 and 4 wheelers are more dangerous than 2 wheelers for many reasons too.

Ranging from being harder to control, harder to stop and IME, the much higher liklihood of the fucking thing hitting you after you fall off of it.

They also give people with absolutely no physical skill or coordination the feeling of being able to do things they shouldn't be.

Newbies are often scared of dirtbikes, which is a fairly healthy thing really.

ND4SPD · 07-03-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Newbies are often scared of dirtbikes, which is a fairly healthy thing really.

I have yet to throw a leg over a dirtbike. More than likely it will be a long time before I do - I know that it'll turn into a "Hey y'all, watch this" moment.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 02:16 PM

If Alex was like most 4 or 5 year olds (or if my wife and I were different parents for that matter; we actually WATCH our kids), I'd have a different view on this. There is no way I'd turn some of his little friends loose on one.

sinfuldragon · 07-03-2007, 02:18 PM

This is my favorite line and it happens to be the first

Dirt bikes, scooters, go-carts and buggies can all pose a serious risk of injury to kids, a team of researchers report.

You needed a team of researchers to prove this? Like its not common knowledge?!?!

luvtolean · 07-03-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade

If Alex was like most 4 or 5 year olds, I'd have a different view on this. There is no way I'd turn some of his little friends loose on one.

I'm not making the argument kids shouldn't be allowed to ride them.

In fact, I am really glad I am proficient on 2, 3 and 4 wheelers.

But, I personally believe 2 wheelers are a better start point. They just don't feel nearly as stable and easy to control.

(This is along the lines of what I was going to say in your other thread)

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

" Overall, accidents have jumped 86 percent -- from 70,500 injuries in 1990 to 130,900 injuries in 2003, the experts said."

Last time I checked, the population grew significantly during that same time period:
From another article:

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than four million babies are born in the United States each year, and that number is steadily on the rise. Between 2002 and 2004, the national birth rate climbed 2 percent to more than 4.1 million births. Last October, the United States Census Bureau estimated that the nation's population hit 300 million"

Sort of makes their statistics less significant than they appear. Based on the above figures, there were some 52 million more people in the US in 2003 than in 1990 that their statistics don't address.

Yeah, this chart shows all age groups' numbers to be increasing, but I wonder what the percentages are? If you have more people riding, I'd expect the pure numbers of accidents to increase.

From: http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/atv-...-final-all.pdf

The document also states "In 2001, at least 97 percent of all injured children younger than 16 were operating ATVs that were larger than the size recommended for their age group." So I wonder how many of these kids were riding their father's Raptor?

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I'm not making the argument kids shouldn't be allowed to ride them.

In fact, I am really glad I am proficient on 2, 3 and 4 wheelers.

But, I personally believe 2 wheelers are a better start point. They just don't feel nearly as stable and easy to control.

(This is along the lines of what I was going to say in your other thread)

We did debate the tradeoffs vs a 50.

tigerblade · 07-03-2007, 02:44 PM

And of course statistics and probabilities don't mean a thing other than giving us a way to talk about safety. Our child will NOT turn the key without a full face helmet, will NOT be allowed to operate it without a parent watching, the throttle limiter will be used, etc. If we decide it's just too much for him to handle right now, it will be awaiting him when he is ready for it.

bda116 · 07-03-2007, 03:38 PM

My four year old son is very proficient on his training wheel-less bike and is getting better with the 50. Next I'll be teaching him the ropes on the Predator 90 to make sure all the bases are covered.
And he knows full well that he isn't allowed on any of the motorcycles or four wheelers without his helmet, goggles and gloves at minimum. He typically puts on his dirt jersey and pants as well for a ride on the 50.
He actually likes the helmet and goggles so much he'll wear them on his bike on occasion as well rather than his bike helmet.

Moral is, just like guns and anything else, teach them proper use and skill young and they will grow with them with minimal injury.
I don't expect my son to go through moto-dom unscathed, particularly now that he is always wanting to wheelie everything from his bike to when I give him a ride on a wheeler, but if wearing the proper gear and riding the machine with enough thought, those injuries will be minimalized.

It is the responsibility of the parents to keep the kids as safe as possible on these things, not the right or responsibility of the gubmint to regulate them.

quick26 · 07-06-2007, 08:06 AM

i was started on a go cart when i was 5, and when i was 8 got a 160 quad runner. i was never allowed to ride without my helmet and i had to stay close to the house. i have only broke 2 bones due to atv o shits. i think bda hit it on the head, teach proper care and useage and people will stay safe. another reason that the injuries are on the rise, it is easier for people to obtain an atv or dirtbike now it seems like.

gt702 · 07-06-2007, 09:03 AM

They did a little spot on the late news last night, citing that 50% were from the "little bikes" that go slow and you would think would be safe ... as they showed 2 little kids WOT running through front yards, out into the street, and zig-zagging in front of each other, and I don't remember any real protective gear. Am I the only one that sees the problem with that?

These people go to the autoparts store or even the department stores, buy them because the kids want them, figure they are only as fast as their bicycles, and just let them go. Where is the parenting or learning in that?

quick26 · 07-06-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt702

Where is the parenting

and there is the problem

gt702 · 07-06-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quick26

and there is the problem

And the one thing they didn't mention on the news spot.

It was all about these little machines that have this dangerous hidden trait, just waiting to hurt the unsuspecting innocent child.

tigerblade · 07-06-2007, 09:33 AM

I spent an hour and a half chasing him around the yard last night.

We learned about how to approach hills or ditches straight on and to use his knees as part of the suspension when it's bumpy. The other 3 kids in the 'hood who have them were also out and about. All were wearing helmets, and I think all had at least gloves too. I want to get him some mx boots, but for now we just have his Nikes (no flip-flops allowed, sorry BDA).

07-03-2007, 08:43 AM	#1
ND4SPD I'm BATMAN!!! Join Date: 12-12-2006 Bike(s): Trek Posts: 8,046 Images: 25	Off-road vehicles a danger to kids ATVs Not the Only Off-Road Danger to Kids - Yahoo! News Can't wait to see the regulation some idiot politician is going to try to put out because of this. __________________ "This is your life - are you who you want to be?" Learn all you need to know about Mac OS X

07-03-2007, 09:18 AM	#2
gt702 Gear Driven Cams Join Date: 12-18-2006 Bike(s): Some Hondas and a Kwacker Posts: 1,159	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids Well, the children are already supposed to be under the supervision of adults ... so maybe the adults who buy these things should be forced to sit in a class and learn the proper way to operate them and suppervise/train the young so they don't get hurt. Oh, and we should outlaw trees. I know a lot of kids who got hurt from falling out of them. We should only have bushes. __________________ Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Albert Einstein

07-03-2007, 09:20 AM	#3
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids Nice timing, as we're about to give a quad to our 5 year old later today. I like this statement: "The most common injuries were contusions/abrasions (28.3 percent), fractures (24.2 percent), and lacerations (20 percent), Collins noted." Raise your hand if you made it through childhood with no scratches, bruises or breaks. __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year

07-03-2007, 09:53 AM	#5
bda116 Done. Join Date: 12-17-2006 Bike(s): . Posts: 2,113	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids Ah yes, the old three wheelers. Good thing there wasn't a nanny-state back then when we were all killing ourselves with them, eh? It's amazing any of us made it to our 30s with all those evil cars we drvie on a daily basis causing bruises, scratches and broken bones. I think they should be outlawed as well. __________________ "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

07-03-2007, 09:54 AM	#6
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids I was just thinking about our neighbor's boy who went face-first into the pavement last year on his bicycle. He was going down the modest slope (nothing like Pete's driveway whatsoever) that leads to our cul-de-sac. I think we can regulate the speed on the quad to keep him from going much faster than he could on a bike. __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year

07-03-2007, 11:47 AM	#8
abtech Believe Join Date: 12-14-2006 Age: 58 Bike(s): 66 Puch Scrambler Posts: 3,271	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids " Overall, accidents have jumped 86 percent -- from 70,500 injuries in 1990 to 130,900 injuries in 2003, the experts said." Last time I checked, the population grew significantly during that same time period: From another article: "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than four million babies are born in the United States each year, and that number is steadily on the rise. Between 2002 and 2004, the national birth rate climbed 2 percent to more than 4.1 million births. Last October, the United States Census Bureau estimated that the nation's population hit 300 million" Sort of makes their statistics less significant than they appear. Based on the above figures, there were some 52 million more people in the US in 2003 than in 1990 that their statistics don't address. __________________ Now in stereo AAA doesn't only refer to the Auto Club . . .

07-03-2007, 01:33 PM	#9
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids There are liars, damn liars, and statisticians... __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year

07-03-2007, 02:11 PM	#10
TraumaOne a mowing target Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Greenville, NC Age: 34 Bike(s): 2008 Yamaha FZ-6 Posts: 1,570	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids Personally, I have seen some severe injuries from ATV's. I don't have the numbers to support it, but I would swear I saw, by far, more ATV injuries than MC injuries. Almost exclusively because people are idiots... drunk, riding at night and running accross a busy highway, young stupid, doing tricks without helemts... you get the idea. I think they are very dangerous, but mainly because people don't seem to realize that they can be... and don't take safety seriously on them.

07-03-2007, 02:14 PM	#11
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids Your post doesn't tell me that the ATV is dangerous. __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year

07-03-2007, 02:14 PM	#12
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,339	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids I anectdotally believe 3 and 4 wheelers are more dangerous than 2 wheelers for many reasons too. Ranging from being harder to control, harder to stop and IME, the much higher liklihood of the fucking thing hitting you after you fall off of it. They also give people with absolutely no physical skill or coordination the feeling of being able to do things they shouldn't be. Newbies are often scared of dirtbikes, which is a fairly healthy thing really. __________________ Someone needs to present the facts and the physics rather than just the rhetoric. Poor old Carmelo doesn't understand the physics of a motorcycle. - Jerry Burgess, on spec tires and changing engine rules

07-03-2007, 02:16 PM	#14
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids If Alex was like most 4 or 5 year olds (or if my wife and I were different parents for that matter; we actually WATCH our kids), I'd have a different view on this. There is no way I'd turn some of his little friends loose on one. __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year

07-03-2007, 02:18 PM	#15
sinfuldragon All You know about me is what I sold you... Join Date: 06-19-2007 Age: 27 Bike(s): 98 900rr Posts: 183	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids This is my favorite line and it happens to be the first Dirt bikes, scooters, go-carts and buggies can all pose a serious risk of injury to kids, a team of researchers report. You needed a team of researchers to prove this? Like its not common knowledge?!?! __________________ If you haven't wrecked, you're not pushing it hard enough. If it isn't blurry, you're not going fast enough. If it were easy, everyone would do it. If it doesn't move you, than why are you moving it? Ride Fast, Ride Hard

07-03-2007, 02:44 PM	#19
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids And of course statistics and probabilities don't mean a thing other than giving us a way to talk about safety. Our child will NOT turn the key without a full face helmet, will NOT be allowed to operate it without a parent watching, the throttle limiter will be used, etc. If we decide it's just too much for him to handle right now, it will be awaiting him when he is ready for it. __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year Last edited by tigerblade; 07-03-2007 at 02:50 PM.

07-03-2007, 03:38 PM	#20
bda116 Done. Join Date: 12-17-2006 Bike(s): . Posts: 2,113	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids My four year old son is very proficient on his training wheel-less bike and is getting better with the 50. Next I'll be teaching him the ropes on the Predator 90 to make sure all the bases are covered. And he knows full well that he isn't allowed on any of the motorcycles or four wheelers without his helmet, goggles and gloves at minimum. He typically puts on his dirt jersey and pants as well for a ride on the 50. He actually likes the helmet and goggles so much he'll wear them on his bike on occasion as well rather than his bike helmet. Moral is, just like guns and anything else, teach them proper use and skill young and they will grow with them with minimal injury. I don't expect my son to go through moto-dom unscathed, particularly now that he is always wanting to wheelie everything from his bike to when I give him a ride on a wheeler, but if wearing the proper gear and riding the machine with enough thought, those injuries will be minimalized. It is the responsibility of the parents to keep the kids as safe as possible on these things, not the right or responsibility of the gubmint to regulate them. __________________ "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar M. Ahmad, founding chairman of CAIR.

07-06-2007, 08:06 AM	#21
quick26 Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Elizabeth City, NC Age: 25 Bike(s): 06 TRX 450r Posts: 1,613	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids i was started on a go cart when i was 5, and when i was 8 got a 160 quad runner. i was never allowed to ride without my helmet and i had to stay close to the house. i have only broke 2 bones due to atv o shits. i think bda hit it on the head, teach proper care and useage and people will stay safe. another reason that the injuries are on the rise, it is easier for people to obtain an atv or dirtbike now it seems like. __________________ I am not post whoring, I am providing an abundance of useless opinion.

07-06-2007, 09:03 AM	#22
gt702 Gear Driven Cams Join Date: 12-18-2006 Bike(s): Some Hondas and a Kwacker Posts: 1,159	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids They did a little spot on the late news last night, citing that 50% were from the "little bikes" that go slow and you would think would be safe ... as they showed 2 little kids WOT running through front yards, out into the street, and zig-zagging in front of each other, and I don't remember any real protective gear. Am I the only one that sees the problem with that? These people go to the autoparts store or even the department stores, buy them because the kids want them, figure they are only as fast as their bicycles, and just let them go. Where is the parenting or learning in that? __________________ Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Albert Einstein

07-06-2007, 09:33 AM	#25
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Off-road vehicles a danger to kids I spent an hour and a half chasing him around the yard last night. We learned about how to approach hills or ditches straight on and to use his knees as part of the suspension when it's bumpy. The other 3 kids in the 'hood who have them were also out and about. All were wearing helmets, and I think all had at least gloves too. I want to get him some mx boots, but for now we just have his Nikes (no flip-flops allowed, sorry BDA). __________________ Seems that doomsday's come early this year