Brake by Wire

phobe · 06-14-2008, 03:32 PM

If this is freal, it will be very interesting to see how it performs.

Like it or not, it will prevent a lot of crashes.

Honda testing ABS brakes on CBR600RR - Autoblog

jose_jimenez · 06-14-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Still, hardcore riders have proven very reluctant to give up any control to computers, especially on race tracks, where supersport bikes are expected to thrive.

You already know you can count me out

The beauty of motorcycling, for me, is controlling all this shit myself, not computers

Hammer · 06-14-2008, 04:12 PM

No thanks, I like to feel the brakes. May be ok for the street cruiser, but not for track use sportbike.

phobe · 06-14-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jose_jimenez

You already know you can count me out

The beauty of motorcycling, for me, is controlling all this shit myself, not computers

You don't even have a motorcycle.

jose_jimenez · 06-14-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

You don't even have a motorcycle.

The hell I don't. I could fill a damn book with what you don't know junior

My rear BT015, is scrubbed from edge to edge and it'll be getting more work on Father's Day. I'd talk more but I have to go take a Phobe (shit)

phobe · 06-14-2008, 05:03 PM

I bet Dr Phil could write a few books on you.

seamus · 06-14-2008, 05:14 PM

I'm curious to see how it's supposed to work.

Purpdust · 06-14-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I bet Dr Phil could write a few books on you.

I think you two should share the house the Jose is using for the Laguna Seca weekend.

Then we could add a reality show to the MCADX Magazine

DUX · 06-14-2008, 06:32 PM

This same argument went on forever in cars and other bikes.

My GS has them, and for normal street riding why the hell wouldn't you want them? Yes, we see all the people who claim to be able to outperform the ABS but on real road conditions such as rain, gravel, etc..they can help save your ass.

People cried about them on the BMW and how they'd interfere with dirt riding. The problem was solved with a simple switch on my left handlebar marked "ABS." Hold it for 5 seconds and guess what? No ABS!

If Honda is developing them for the average street rider, I think it's a good thing. I think they should also give people the choice (ST-1300 and VFR anyone?) to order without or the ability to turn it off for the track.

smoothrideronli · 06-14-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

I think you two should share the house the Jose is using for the Laguna Seca weekend.

Then we could add a reality show to the MCADX Magazine

seamus · 06-15-2008, 12:12 PM

I saw a video a couple months back that showed the differences in braking technique that included an ABS model but can't seem to find it right now. I did stumble upon this article from way back when I was a kid though.

The question was also asked about why cycle mags only show dry braking distances in their reviews and the response was that it was too dangerous for them to test wet braking distances without ABS.

I've also noticed that most of the cycle cops out there have been switching from Harleys to STs and BMWs with ABS.

If the guys who do it for a living show a need for it, there's probably something to it. And if Honda is going to lead the effort to put it onto their flagship models, more power to them. It'll definitely being an interesting development.

I still remember when everyone was griping about fuel injection.

slickwill · 06-15-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

I still remember when everyone was griping about fuel injection.

Really? That was a change I was looking forward to. I hate messing with carbs. I'm a little disappointed that honda is behind the game on bringing FI to dirtbikes. I'd love an injected CRF.

I like the idea of the ABS but not the brake by wire. I want to be able to feel exactly what is going on with appropriate feedback right up to the point of lock-up. At that point (imminent lock-up) is when I'd like the computer to take over. There is a distinct difference in every car I have driven that has throttle by wire and I don't like it. The feel just isn't quite the same and I always feel like the computer is slightly off on telling the throttle plates where to be compared to where I feel like I'm putting my foot. For brakes I can imagine it being much worse.

gt702 · 06-16-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

I still remember when everyone was griping about fuel injection.

I fixed that by selling the '98 and going back to a '94 VFR

The look on my then boss's face was priceless some years back when I told him my feelings on FI and other electronics on bikes, and he responded "you are in the wrong business" ... I happened to be leading a motorcycle FI development program at the time. Since then some of the shortcomings of the motorcycle based systems have been improved, but not yet complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickwill

I like the idea of the ABS but not the brake by wire. I want to be able to feel exactly what is going on with appropriate feedback right up to the point of lock-up. At that point (imminent lock-up) is when I'd like the computer to take over. There is a distinct difference in every car I have driven that has throttle by wire and I don't like it. The feel just isn't quite the same and I always feel like the computer is slightly off on telling the throttle plates where to be compared to where I feel like I'm putting my foot. For brakes I can imagine it being much worse.

I agree with this. ABS fine (even with its limitations), but brake by wire? I thnk not.

Dux, I think you missed that subtle difference. Your GS doesn't have this yet.

I know stability control systems use this technology now, but the main braking function is still performed by the hydralics attached to the driver. To me, the system is very vulnerable and I fear the shortcuts needed to make it cost viable in a lower priced motorycle application (my reasons for not being an early adopter on motorcycle FI) ... or will they just pass on the added cost?

DUX · 06-16-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt702

I fixed that by selling the '98 and going back to a '94 VFR

The look on my then boss's face was priceless some years back when I told him my feelings on FI and other electronics on bikes, and he responded "you are in the wrong business" ... I happened to be leading a motorcycle FI development program at the time. Since then some of the shortcomings of the motorcycle based systems have been improved, but not yet complete.

I agree with this. ABS fine (even with its limitations), but brake by wire? I thnk not.

Dux, I think you missed that subtle difference. Your GS doesn't have this yet.

I know stability control systems use this technology now, but the main braking function is still performed by the hydralics attached to the driver. To me, the system is very vulnerable and I fear the shortcuts needed to make it cost viable in a lower priced motorycle application (my reasons for not being an early adopter on motorcycle FI) ... or will they just pass on the added cost?

Yup, I missed it.

I don't like the idea of brake by wire, but love the idea of ABS.

The GS's didn't have brake by wire, but they did have servos that were actuated by the brake levers.

They finally got rid of them. I'm not sure I would have bought a GS with servos.

DUX · 06-26-2008, 07:03 AM

Haven't had time to read the article, but more info here:

Prototype Honda Electronic ABS Tested - MotorcycleUSA.com

slickwill · 06-28-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUX

Haven't had time to read the article, but more info here:

Prototype Honda Electronic ABS Tested - MotorcycleUSA.com

It sounds pretty positive overall. Better than I had expected.

This is a downside though:

Quote:

I do not see it being above 10 kg (22 lbs) extra and in the region of £500 - £1,000 as far as cost is concerned.

That's a little more weight than I would have thought, and 1,000 pounds is $2,000. That'd make a 600RR $11,500ish.

On the upside with the ABS sensors on the front and rear it should be really easy to incorporate some trick traction control.

phobe · 06-28-2008, 02:03 PM

Wonder how it's affected it you change tires to something with a taller profile?

seamus · 06-28-2008, 03:05 PM

I know past ABS systems were thrown out of whack by larger tires but it's not as much of an issue anymore. don't know what the manufacturers have done to fix the issue.

I'm definitely interested to see how the whole thing turns out. As we move closer to EV's maybe it'll be possible to merge all the computers into one small ECU-like black box.

phobe · 06-28-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

I'm definitely interested to see how the whole thing turns out. As we move closer to EV's maybe it'll be possible to merge all the computers into one small ECU-like black box.

Funny thing is, they seem to be moving in the opposite direction with CANBUS harnesses featuring separate mini-ECUs for each system... this is what I'm seeing in automobiles... I think the newer Ducatis work in a similar way.

ND4SPD · 06-28-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

I know past ABS systems were thrown out of whack by larger tires but it's not as much of an issue anymore. don't know what the manufacturers have done to fix the issue.

I'm definitely interested to see how the whole thing turns out. As we move closer to EV's maybe it'll be possible to merge all the computers into one small ECU-like black box.

Bad idea. Single points of failure are not your friend.

seamus · 06-28-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Bad idea. Single points of failure are not your friend.

They better find a way to stop the bike with an electrical failure then.

Especially Honda and their awesome R/R and stators.

phobe · 06-28-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

Especially Honda and their awesome R/R and stators.

There's a redundant manual system. RTFA!

06-14-2008, 03:32 PM	#1
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,637	Brake by Wire If this is freal, it will be very interesting to see how it performs. Like it or not, it will prevent a lot of crashes. Honda testing ABS brakes on CBR600RR - Autoblog __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

06-14-2008, 04:12 PM	#3
Hammer For Sale Join Date: 12-17-2006 Location: Indiana Age: 39 Bike(s): 05 Suzuki 600 Posts: 4,922 Images: 1	No thanks, I like to feel the brakes. May be ok for the street cruiser, but not for track use sportbike. __________________ SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS

06-14-2008, 05:03 PM	#6
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,637	I bet Dr Phil could write a few books on you. __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

06-14-2008, 05:14 PM	#7
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,497	I'm curious to see how it's supposed to work. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

06-14-2008, 06:32 PM	#9
DUX Join Date: 12-28-2006 Age: 37 Bike(s): '07 R1200 GSadv,'04 RC-51 Posts: 661	This same argument went on forever in cars and other bikes. My GS has them, and for normal street riding why the hell wouldn't you want them? Yes, we see all the people who claim to be able to outperform the ABS but on real road conditions such as rain, gravel, etc..they can help save your ass. People cried about them on the BMW and how they'd interfere with dirt riding. The problem was solved with a simple switch on my left handlebar marked "ABS." Hold it for 5 seconds and guess what? No ABS! If Honda is developing them for the average street rider, I think it's a good thing. I think they should also give people the choice (ST-1300 and VFR anyone?) to order without or the ability to turn it off for the track. __________________ Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire. -Reggie Leach

06-15-2008, 12:12 PM	#11
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,497	I saw a video a couple months back that showed the differences in braking technique that included an ABS model but can't seem to find it right now. I did stumble upon this article from way back when I was a kid though. The question was also asked about why cycle mags only show dry braking distances in their reviews and the response was that it was too dangerous for them to test wet braking distances without ABS. I've also noticed that most of the cycle cops out there have been switching from Harleys to STs and BMWs with ABS. If the guys who do it for a living show a need for it, there's probably something to it. And if Honda is going to lead the effort to put it onto their flagship models, more power to them. It'll definitely being an interesting development. I still remember when everyone was griping about fuel injection. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

06-26-2008, 07:03 AM	#15
DUX Join Date: 12-28-2006 Age: 37 Bike(s): '07 R1200 GSadv,'04 RC-51 Posts: 661	Haven't had time to read the article, but more info here: Prototype Honda Electronic ABS Tested - MotorcycleUSA.com __________________ Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire. -Reggie Leach

06-28-2008, 02:03 PM	#17
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,637	Wonder how it's affected it you change tires to something with a taller profile? __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

06-28-2008, 03:05 PM	#18
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,497	I know past ABS systems were thrown out of whack by larger tires but it's not as much of an issue anymore. don't know what the manufacturers have done to fix the issue. I'm definitely interested to see how the whole thing turns out. As we move closer to EV's maybe it'll be possible to merge all the computers into one small ECU-like black box. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

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