evl_twn

Has anyone had any experience with one of these, or something similar?:

PLX Devices Inc.

I can't afford my own dyno, but if this is adaptable to different bikes, it might be an interesting thing to mess around with. It seems to me you could acquire more "real world" conditions than just a WFO dyno pull. What got me thinking about something like this was poking around looking for information for her MV Agusta which we put the Arrow Thunder exhaust on, but the ECU/mapping is still all stock. Her bike also gets crap mileage (mid 20's mpg at BEST).

We're probably going to get a PC III for it, and I really can't think of a better way to get it properly mapped. Initial investment would be a bit spendy, but if I can do a few bikes with it, the cost would be cheaper (and results probably better) than spending $$$ on multiple dyno runs.

Thoughts?

SomeStrangeGuy

I'd say if you're looking to log data - that's probably a pretty decent device for doing such things


I haven't had experience, but toyed around with the idea as well when riding dirt so I'll be interested to see what this thread cultivates.

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SomeStrangeGuy

Actually in hindsight, that thing is a little bit different then the pieces I was looking at. Still looks pretty pimp though

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seamus

Doesn't DynoJet have a wideband A/F thingy similar to that?

edit:
Wide Band Commander - A complete picture for Air-to-Fuel Ratio Analysis

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evl_twn

I can't seem to find info on how much data the WBC can acquire on that page. The PLX can run 90 minutes of continuous data logging. The PLX is also cheaper, the only thing I think it lacks is the gauge, which I don't think is necessary anyway.

Edit: This is the thread that got me thinking about it:

MVAgusta.net - Project Burtale A/F Data Logger

Edit II: I just looked on the pdf for the WBC, it has a max time limit of "approximately 10 minutes"

Shenders1

A dyno is definitely the way to go for a quick WOT calibration, but as you noted, 'real world' conditions are tough to create on dyno, anyway, and all the car manufacturers do their final calibration out on the road.

I don't have any personal experience with either the PC Wideband 'thingy' or the PLX, but as long as either are reasonably accurate and able to log a sufficient amount of data they should do the trick. Really precise measurement of A/F ratio is only important if you're trying to maximize catalyst efficiency and emissions, which wouldn't likely be a priority for folks like us. More important would be accuracy in time-aligning the A/F data and RPM/load data. The PLX advert indicates they understand that and have taken pains to get it right.

Keep us posted on this if you try it - I had visions of doing something similar myself but haven't got around to it. Too many episodes of 'Thomas the Tank Engine' to be watched, eats up my spare time .

evl_twn

My only problem with a shop "dyno tuning" your map, is how they get all the non-wfo data points? If you look at any PC map, I can't believe they are accurately mapping anything less than full throttle.

seamus

Well, then I guess I'll be waiting for your review...

And I'll probably ask to borrow it in 2009 when you're done testing your entire garage.

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Shenders1

In theory it should be possible to do multiple RPM sweeps at various throttle openings and piece together a more or less complete map - You could probably write a macro (or if you're Sheep, hand-code something in Assembler ) to interpolate and process the data if you wanted - or you could do it by hand in Excel. I think this is the same issue we'd face with data collected on-road, actually.

I'm guessing the quality of the map you get from a shop depends greatly on the knowledge level of the operator. I believe Dynojet used to require their 'certified' tuning centers to buy some software and get trained on how to use it.

One concern with a dyno-generated map is ram air effect - No cooling fan in the world is going to produce the right intake pressure if the bike is standing still. I honestly don't know if this even matters below 100 mph, but it's got to be significant anywhere near top speed.

gt702

No experience with that one, but have some thoughts/questions for you.

Does the PLX get throttle position and RPM data from the engine? If not, it will be difficult to figure out what map position to change. Also, does that price include the sensor, or do you have to purchase it separately (I got the idea it is separate, and likely expensive).

It appears (very quick look ... and the ad said so) that the unit is designed to work with an aftermarket controller ... that I'm assuming accepts a wide-band O2 sensor input. I don't think a DJ will accept that input. So to be stand alone, you would likely need to log your load separately ... but maybe I read the summary wrong.

I couldn't get the other link to open up the pictures, so I didn't look at that one.

Best way to fully tune the engine (well, only way that really works well) is to get it on a dyno that can hold a load (eddy-current or maybe a water-brake with a big reservoir) so you can set your speed and load (TP) and let things stabilize, make adjustments, and get results. Repeat for all RPM and TP zones to get the base map, and then look at making adjustments for transients.

The PCommander basically assumes that the transients the factory programmed in, when combined with a slightly rich map, will work well enough for most people ... and it does.

Anything that uses an inertia dyno will have to make runs at a couple throttle openings and try to catch results on the fly (without reaching a stable reading) and then fill in the table from there. There is room for error in this process, that I'm sure some fancy software can help with, but error none the less ... so I'm sure most maps are designed to error on the rich side.

If the DynoJet guys aren't doing multiple runs at various throttle openings (minimum every 10%), collecting data at various rpms (every 500 or 1000), then you aren't getting a full map done.

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evl_twn

The PLX connects to a switched power source, and also has connections for throttle position sensor input, and engine RPM. It also comes with the wideband O2 sensor. From what I read about it on the MV forum, it came with everything necessary except the O2 sensor bung that needs to be installed in the exhaust.

This doesn't directly interface with the PC III. You would have to acquire the data, then interpret what changes to make to your map, then load the altered map into the PC III.

gt702

If it comes with all that, then it should do what you need to get the data. Then you need some way to analyze it ... average and divide into calibratable blocks that the PC can use. When you collect data, it will still be good to get the system to stabilize at different speed and load points. A little more difficult without a good dyno, but can be done.

I'll have to look into it more when I get some time. Thanks.

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evl_twn

Check out the thread on the MV forum if you get a chance, and let me know what you think...

JohnnyDiablo

evl

Nice find. Read the post at the MV forum and it all sounds worth it. I decided to revisit it after I mucked up the throttle synch between my front cylinders and rear cylinders.

What I really learned from that forum was that I want a MV F4. Gotta make a plan to get one now. Well maybe I can settle for an Aprilia.

evl_twn

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gt702

Purdy

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Shenders1

Oh man that looks like fun! Which bike is it going on first?

evl_twn

I'm definitely going to set it up on the CBR, but I'm also going to try to get her MV mapped with it too.

evl_twn

Here we go...

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Shenders1

Looks like it works, eh?

I ended up buying something similar - A less feature-laden device made by Innovate. The one advantage it seems to have over the PLX is a calibration routine using air as a reference gas - wide-range UEGO's tend to drift when they're not run very, very near stoich.

We'll have to compare notes.

After I change the cams, up the compression, change the exhaust, port the heads, and free up the intake system a bit, I'm thinking the Duc may need a bit of fuel tweaking .

seamus

Why do you think that?

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Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant

The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
--- Thucydides