1098S - First (Track) Impressions

bwhip · 07-23-2007, 11:07 AM

It was great to get the new 1098S out on the track yesterday, at an Apex Trackday on the west track at Miller. I’m planning on racing next weekend, so my plan was to use the trackday to get the suspension and controls all sorted, and get a feel for the bike. Unfortunately, my track bodywork doesn’t arrive until midweek, so I haven’t yet mounted the frame sliders, and had to ride with the beautiful stock plastics – carefully! A few friends saw me in the paddock beforehand, and said “You’re going out on the track with the stock plastics? Are you nuts?” I told them not to worry, as I’d be taking it easy (unless they passed me, of course).

Before even going out on the track, I knew from the few street rides I’d done that the suspension needed some sorting. The rear was incredibly stiff, and the front fairly soft and springy, with too much rebound. So, the first thing I did was go see a suspension pro – Jason from Corporate Suspension, who is at all of the Apex trackdays as a vendor. I’d heard good things about his work, so I decided rather than just “trial and error” it myself, I’d get some help from a pro.

We set the proper sag, and made quite a few adjustments to the front and rear, to make sure they’d work together properly, and be set up for my weight (190). He said that it was probably good that I didn’t take it out with the settings that were on there, as they were really off. Then, it was time to take it out on the track to give it a try. Finally I’d get to ride the bike at speed!

The west track at Miller is a lot of fun, and has some very good variety. Turns one through four are VERY high speed, flowing turns. Five is a very tight double-apex hairpin that requires braking from 140 or so down to practically nothing. Ten is also a very slow turn that’s quite tricky.

The power and smoothness of the bike was really impressive. I’ve gotten so used to slipper clutches on my other bikes, that the engine braking I was getting was a little startling at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly, and adapted my clutch and blipping to accommodate. I found that I definitely needed to keep my weight forward going into the turns, as the way the tail section wraps around your butt meant that if I didn’t, my butt would be bumping into it when shifting my weight off to the side of the bike.

The rearsets I put on (Motowheels) worked well, although I don’t know why they didn’t make the teeth on the footpegs a little more coarse. I don’t like my feet slipping around on them, which I noticed especially under hard braking. Gonna have to swap those out for sure.

The gearbox was really nice. Never missed a shift, false neutrals, anything like that. There’s a pretty long throw on the shift lever, which is different than on my 600, but it was always buttery smooth.

Still too much free play in the throttle, which led to some abrupt acceleration in slow corners (not good). I’ll fix that this week.

Brakes are the best ever. Amazing! For some reason I found that when you pull the lever, you get nothing for the first 3/8 inch or so. Then, they work unbelievably well. I’m really used to my brakes being right out at the first part of the lever pull, not like this. I thought maybe they just needed to be bled, but they’re not mushy at all, they just have that gap for some reason. We bled them at the first service last week just to be sure, but they’re exactly the same. Once you get used to it, they’re unbelievably good. I took my 600 (which has very good brakes) out on the track later in the day, and couldn’t believe how much more of a pull it took to slow down by comparison.

Power was really awesome. The front end got light a lot under acceleration, and even though I was being somewhat cautious, my speeds at various points around the track were really good compared to pushing hard on my 600 or RC51. Gearing seemed to be pretty good for that track, although there were a couple of spots I tried going to first, as second might have been a bit boggy, but first was way too low!

Cornering was excellent on the high speed stuff, but on the slower, tighter turns, the bike just wasn’t turning well at all. It kept wanting to drift wide. I wasn’t sure how much of it was the setup, versus me not wanting to risk lowsiding my new baby, but I decided to talk to my suspension guru about it to see what we could do.

The tire wear looked excellent, so we knew we were getting close on the suspension setup. The fork tubes were already up a fair amount in the clamps, so I asked him about possibly raising the ride height in the rear to improve the tighter corners. He raised it by 5 mm, which is apparently a pretty fair amount, and said we could adjust from there if we needed to. Back out to the track.

Suddenly, the bike was transformed. Cornering was way better! The bike seemed to be reading my mind and just leading me into the lines I wanted to take. There didn’t seem to be any straight line or high speed instability as a result, either, so I was very pleased.

I’m definitely looking forward to taking it to the next level next weekend!

No more chicken strips...

phobe · 07-23-2007, 11:11 AM

Cool... now once you're used to it, will you be faster on the 1098 or the RR?

bwhip · 07-23-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Cool... now once you're used to it, will you be faster on the 1098 or the RR?

Good question. I'm hoping the 1098 (helps justify the expense!

). I'm sure it will depend on the track, too.

luvtolean · 07-23-2007, 12:30 PM

So the 1098 was bought to be a racebike?

Damn, I like your style more than ever.

ND4SPD · 07-23-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

Good question. I'm hoping the 1098 (helps justify the expense!

). I'm sure it will depend on the track, too.

You know who to call when you're ready to sell that old, outdated, slow, girlie bike.

Heavy-Dee · 07-23-2007, 12:48 PM

Your description of the brakes sounds like a behavior of the brake pads to me. Anyone else?

luvtolean · 07-23-2007, 12:51 PM

Sounds more to me like the choice of the size of the piston in the MC to the calipers. Maybe for liability reasons with the power of those calipers. Or maybe just for feel.

Bwhip, what size is the pump, do you know?

gt702 · 07-23-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Sounds more to me like the choice of the size of the piston in the MC to the calipers. Maybe for liability reasons with the power of those calipers. Or maybe just for feel.

Or that the calipers do a good job of pulling the pads off the rotors for free-wheeling effect. I'd also go for the feel thing too.

bwhip · 07-23-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So the 1098 was bought to be a racebike?

Damn, I like your style more than ever.

Yep, and what really sealed the deal for me was the few street rides I did on it last week. An exercise in pure frustration. Putting around in second gear, hot, uncomfortable - no thanks. Switching back and forth from street bodywork to track will be no picnic with this bike, either. They don't make anything easy! Just taking off the tail section (license plate and turn signals) took over an hour, and required removing the exhaust cans, among other challenges.

Nope, it's a race bike. A damn pretty race bike, but a race bike.

bwhip · 07-23-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

...Bwhip, what size is the pump, do you know?

Not sure about that. I'll have to do some checking...

Shenders1 · 07-23-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

Your description of the brakes sounds like a behavior of the brake pads to me. Anyone else?

The Brembo radial pump/caliper setup on my 999 behaves the same way. I bled it and bled it, nothing changed.

Shenders1 · 07-23-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

It was great to get the new 1098S out on the track yesterday, at an Apex Trackday on the west track at Miller.....

The power and smoothness of the bike was really impressive. I’ve gotten so used to slipper clutches on my other bikes, that the engine braking I was getting was a little startling at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly, and adapted my clutch and blipping to accommodate.....

I’m definitely looking forward to taking it to the next level next weekend!

No more chicken strips...

Good stuff! I'm keen to hear how the race goes.

I found the engine braking on my itsy-bitsy 999 S somewhat disconcerting, and I'd hate to think what it'd be like on the bigger motor. You may well want a slipper clutch at some point - One benefit of the clackety-clack dry clutch is that they're ridiculously easy to R&R.

bwhip · 07-23-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenders1

Good stuff! I'm keen to hear how the race goes.

I found the engine braking on my itsy-bitsy 999 S somewhat disconcerting, and I'd hate to think what it'd be like on the bigger motor. You may well want a slipper clutch at some point - One benefit of the clackety-clack dry clutch is that they're ridiculously easy to R&R.

Yeah, the slipper would be the next mod I would make. I love those things.

bwhip · 07-24-2007, 08:18 PM

A few photos from Sunday. The photographer was no TAZ or nhfirefighter13

, but the bike's pretty!

nhfirefighter13 · 07-24-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

A few photos from Sunday. The photographer was no TAZ or nhfirefighter13

, but the bike's pretty!

Was the photographer's name Mike?

Should I mention that at the trackday I went to at NHIS on the 17th, some dude got taken out and totaled his brand new 1098? Had a big ol dent in the upper frame.

phobe · 07-24-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Was the photographer's name Mike?

Should I mention that at the trackday I went to at NHIS on the 17th, some dude got taken out and totaled his brand new 1098? Had a big ol dent in the upper frame.

THis post is just dripping with bad juju. Go touch wood or save a drowning cat or something.

nhfirefighter13 · 07-24-2007, 09:57 PM

Look at the plus side....it'll make somebody a really nice track bike.

bwhip · 07-25-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Was the photographer's name Mike?

Nope. Close, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Should I mention that at the trackday I went to at NHIS on the 17th, some dude got taken out and totaled his brand new 1098? Had a big ol dent in the upper frame.

Uh, no, you shouldn't.

ccwilli3 · 07-25-2007, 12:30 AM

go get'm whipper! Ride that eyetalian as she's meant to be ridden!

bwhip · 07-25-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

go get'm whipper! Ride that eyetalian as she's meant to be ridden!

Damn right! Plus, I'm installing the world's most expensive (and beefiest) frame sliders, by R&G. These things are serious (not that I'll ever need to test them, of course).

Leelover · 07-25-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

go get'm whipper! Ride that eyetalian as she's meant to be ridden!

And it looks like he's a doin it to me!

Lookin' good Senore' Whip!

seamus · 07-25-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwhip

Damn right! Plus, I'm installing the world's most expensive (and beefiest) frame sliders, by R&G. These things are serious (not that I'll ever need to test them, of course).

That's a pretty sweet base for the sliders. Is there any kind of padding where it contacts the frame to keep it from scratching the paint on the tubing?

07-23-2007, 11:07 AM	#1
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,899	1098S - First (Track) Impressions It was great to get the new 1098S out on the track yesterday, at an Apex Trackday on the west track at Miller. I’m planning on racing next weekend, so my plan was to use the trackday to get the suspension and controls all sorted, and get a feel for the bike. Unfortunately, my track bodywork doesn’t arrive until midweek, so I haven’t yet mounted the frame sliders, and had to ride with the beautiful stock plastics – carefully! A few friends saw me in the paddock beforehand, and said “You’re going out on the track with the stock plastics? Are you nuts?” I told them not to worry, as I’d be taking it easy (unless they passed me, of course). Before even going out on the track, I knew from the few street rides I’d done that the suspension needed some sorting. The rear was incredibly stiff, and the front fairly soft and springy, with too much rebound. So, the first thing I did was go see a suspension pro – Jason from Corporate Suspension, who is at all of the Apex trackdays as a vendor. I’d heard good things about his work, so I decided rather than just “trial and error” it myself, I’d get some help from a pro. We set the proper sag, and made quite a few adjustments to the front and rear, to make sure they’d work together properly, and be set up for my weight (190). He said that it was probably good that I didn’t take it out with the settings that were on there, as they were really off. Then, it was time to take it out on the track to give it a try. Finally I’d get to ride the bike at speed! The west track at Miller is a lot of fun, and has some very good variety. Turns one through four are VERY high speed, flowing turns. Five is a very tight double-apex hairpin that requires braking from 140 or so down to practically nothing. Ten is also a very slow turn that’s quite tricky. The power and smoothness of the bike was really impressive. I’ve gotten so used to slipper clutches on my other bikes, that the engine braking I was getting was a little startling at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly, and adapted my clutch and blipping to accommodate. I found that I definitely needed to keep my weight forward going into the turns, as the way the tail section wraps around your butt meant that if I didn’t, my butt would be bumping into it when shifting my weight off to the side of the bike. The rearsets I put on (Motowheels) worked well, although I don’t know why they didn’t make the teeth on the footpegs a little more coarse. I don’t like my feet slipping around on them, which I noticed especially under hard braking. Gonna have to swap those out for sure. The gearbox was really nice. Never missed a shift, false neutrals, anything like that. There’s a pretty long throw on the shift lever, which is different than on my 600, but it was always buttery smooth. Still too much free play in the throttle, which led to some abrupt acceleration in slow corners (not good). I’ll fix that this week. Brakes are the best ever. Amazing! For some reason I found that when you pull the lever, you get nothing for the first 3/8 inch or so. Then, they work unbelievably well. I’m really used to my brakes being right out at the first part of the lever pull, not like this. I thought maybe they just needed to be bled, but they’re not mushy at all, they just have that gap for some reason. We bled them at the first service last week just to be sure, but they’re exactly the same. Once you get used to it, they’re unbelievably good. I took my 600 (which has very good brakes) out on the track later in the day, and couldn’t believe how much more of a pull it took to slow down by comparison. Power was really awesome. The front end got light a lot under acceleration, and even though I was being somewhat cautious, my speeds at various points around the track were really good compared to pushing hard on my 600 or RC51. Gearing seemed to be pretty good for that track, although there were a couple of spots I tried going to first, as second might have been a bit boggy, but first was way too low! Cornering was excellent on the high speed stuff, but on the slower, tighter turns, the bike just wasn’t turning well at all. It kept wanting to drift wide. I wasn’t sure how much of it was the setup, versus me not wanting to risk lowsiding my new baby, but I decided to talk to my suspension guru about it to see what we could do. The tire wear looked excellent, so we knew we were getting close on the suspension setup. The fork tubes were already up a fair amount in the clamps, so I asked him about possibly raising the ride height in the rear to improve the tighter corners. He raised it by 5 mm, which is apparently a pretty fair amount, and said we could adjust from there if we needed to. Back out to the track. Suddenly, the bike was transformed. Cornering was way better! The bike seemed to be reading my mind and just leading me into the lines I wanted to take. There didn’t seem to be any straight line or high speed instability as a result, either, so I was very pleased. I’m definitely looking forward to taking it to the next level next weekend! No more chicken strips... Attached Thumbnails __________________ My Gallery

07-23-2007, 11:11 AM	#2
phobe circa 1970 Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 26 Bike(s): 600RR, 125R Posts: 4,634	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions Cool... now once you're used to it, will you be faster on the 1098 or the RR? __________________ Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc

07-23-2007, 12:30 PM	#4
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,341	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions So the 1098 was bought to be a racebike? Damn, I like your style more than ever. __________________ Someone needs to present the facts and the physics rather than just the rhetoric. Poor old Carmelo doesn't understand the physics of a motorcycle. - Jerry Burgess, on spec tires and changing engine rules

07-23-2007, 12:48 PM	#6
Heavy-Dee The Murph Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 31 Bike(s): 2004 GSXR 600 Posts: 2,691	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions Your description of the brakes sounds like a behavior of the brake pads to me. Anyone else? __________________ Epic Fail

07-23-2007, 12:51 PM	#7
luvtolean Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Bike(s): 2008 BMW GS-A Posts: 6,341	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions Sounds more to me like the choice of the size of the piston in the MC to the calipers. Maybe for liability reasons with the power of those calipers. Or maybe just for feel. Bwhip, what size is the pump, do you know? __________________ Someone needs to present the facts and the physics rather than just the rhetoric. Poor old Carmelo doesn't understand the physics of a motorcycle. - Jerry Burgess, on spec tires and changing engine rules

07-24-2007, 08:18 PM	#14
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,899	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions A few photos from Sunday. The photographer was no TAZ or nhfirefighter13 , but the bike's pretty! Attached Thumbnails __________________ My Gallery

07-24-2007, 09:57 PM	#17
nhfirefighter13 Whales are fast! Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Concord, NH Age: 33 Bike(s): The Mighty Nissan! Posts: 3,031 Images: 58	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions Look at the plus side....it'll make somebody a really nice track bike. __________________ http://www.kezerphotography.com "If thou hast not a sword, sell thy cloak and buy one." -Luke 22:36

07-25-2007, 12:30 AM	#19
ccwilli3 having a laugh... Join Date: 12-18-2006 Age: 30 Bike(s): pps mod'd ohlins on a cbr Posts: 1,011	Re: 1098S - First (Track) Impressions go get'm whipper! Ride that eyetalian as she's meant to be ridden!