Up in the air...

Crash · 09-21-2007, 02:07 PM

Alright, I knew this would happen sooner or later. I gotta go racing. I thought that Supermoto would cure this desire, but you just don't have that... ummmm..... something that sportbikes have. It was fun and it made me giggle a lot, but it just lacked something. Since I started riding street bikes, some 20 years ago, (I would steel my brothers Passport 70 and joy ride around the block, then I moved up to his RZ350 when I was tall enough), I’ve always wanted to know what it was like to do this with competition. Track days are fun, and I try to keep them that way. My track buddies have no desire to push hard or “play” that much.

I took some time off when the twins were born, and nothing will kill the desire to race than paying child care cost for twins and private school for the 6 year old.

However, the fates are once again smiling upon us and I feel the need to finally scratch that racing itch.

After years of sitting back and lurking and reading about everyone’s racing experiences and tabulating the costs associated with the sport, I just have to do it. I have my planned progression of schools and have three more track days booked through Nov and am looking to add more. These are geared more towards obtaining bike set-up and physical stamina. The schools are for the obvious reasons of learning and hoping to leach from some of the top riders of yesteryear that can still hold their own on a modern day grid.

My only real question about this whole thing is what bike to use? I had an epiphany with the RC while at our Miller event. It clicked and towards the end, I was riding it like I never thought I could. It’s still more capable than I am, but to face facts and looking at the equipment being used in the classes it would race in, its two generations old and is down 20-30hp on the latest twins. I can’t stand working my ass off to pass in corners only to have some yahoo on a 1000cc 4 take me back on the straights. It’s a zero net gain. This was a major rub at Miller especially with the straight long enough land the space shuttle on.

I’ve been holding off on the Duc 1098. While I could do it, it would be at the upper limit of overall budget and would reduce the amount I could spend on track days and other goodies. My true hidden desire is to have Ducati unveil their 750 version of the 1098. That is supposed to happen later this year (allegedly)

Third option is the Triumph 675. This bike has come on strong as a contender in my opinion. I got to ride one awhile back, and while it was set-up for someone much heavier than I, it was a kick. Once I got used to the front end feel, it became clear that this is probably the most overlooked bike in its class (even after winning IMOTY). I’ve really begun to lust over the thing the more I read about it and go down and make vroom vroom noises on it. Cost is not a major issue, and finding parts is getting easier. I just don’t think racing in the supersport class is the “ease into the sport” grid. We all know it is the biggest grid with the most young and brave souls.

Last option is the tried and true SV650. Don’t need to explain much here, it’s the bike to have when entering the sport for training and competition. Parts are cheap; bike is cheap, so much so you can get two new ones for the price of a GSXR1000.

It comes down to time to prep and learn a new machine or go with what I have until I really am getting to the limits of it. I am open to any and all opinions. Thanks

SheepOfBlue · 09-21-2007, 02:23 PM

Spend a year losing on the RC and having fun. Unless you think you have the ability to go and be top 10 or less regular in year one why worry? You can likely learn more pushing to keep up that slacking on a superior bike. Of course a passenger sheep will add the needed 10-20HP as I am currently undefeated in all grudge matches

EDIT: and beware the dye jobs they are usually hiding something

Crash · 09-21-2007, 02:28 PM

Sound advice from a very logical sheep

seamus · 09-21-2007, 02:34 PM

I'd say to just ride what you like. If you're looking to win it all in the first season, go with the bike you think will do that. If you're looking to race and enjoy yourself, you should get the bike that lets you do that.

Based on what you said, I don't think blowing your wad on a 1098 would let you enjoy yourself as much as pushing the RC or SV around the track. And since you've already said the RC is clicking for you, I say go with the RC.

tigerblade · 09-21-2007, 02:39 PM

I guess I'd split my vote 50-50 between racing the RC and getting an SV. I started on my RC for a few races, then got the SV. You will learn more on the SV, IMHO. Both are fun though; you can't really lose with either option. SV will be easier on tires.

Also, you can run the SV in more classes and when you're starting out, the track time will be more important than the bike you're on. Oh, and if you need a spare part, it'll be much easier to find someone in the paddock who can loan you an SV part than an RC51 part, or give you advice on setup, etc.

SheepOfBlue · 09-21-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade

I guess I'd split my vote 50-50 between racing the RC and getting an SV. I started on my RC for a few races, then got the SV. You will learn more on the SV, IMHO. Both are fun though; you can't really lose with either option. SV will be easier on tires.

Also, you can run the SV in more classes and when you're starting out, the track time will be more important than the bike you're on. Oh, and if you need a spare part, it'll be much easier to find someone in the paddock who can loan you an SV part than an RC51 part, or give you advice on setup, etc.

...but passenger sheep magic HP won't work on a Suzuki.

Heavy-Dee · 09-21-2007, 03:05 PM

My

It really depends on the org that you'll be racing with. If it's a popular and competitive org start w/ the SV. However, some smaller orgs actually have smaller less competitive big bore classes. It really depends on what your concerns are. If you're more worried about other knuckleheads, then this might be good for you. If you're more worried about your own skill/development, then maybe not. It really depends on who you are and how good you are. Look at Whipper; it was his first year and he did really, really well. While me on the other hand am finishing my 3-4 year and really didn't make that much progress this year, while the rest of the field got faster (or the slow guys didn't show leaving me...no where

)

jose_jimenez · 09-21-2007, 03:14 PM

I'd say do what BDA did, get yourself a wrecked 600rr and go to work.

Crash · 09-21-2007, 03:20 PM

Thanks TB. Your adventures in the begining are what lead me to the RC in the first place.

HD - I've been struggling with those issues as well. First and foremost, it's about rider development and learning. I know I'm not going out my first time and doing anything other than fill the back marker position as dutifully as possible. I don't know of any smaller local series other than Willow Springs Motorcycle Club. I would like to run other tracks but that means WERA or CCS and those grids can be huge. I need to research more in terms of what series I can run in.

bwhip · 09-21-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

My

It really depends on the org that you'll be racing with. If it's a popular and competitive org start w/ the SV. However, some smaller orgs actually have smaller less competitive big bore classes. It really depends on what your concerns are. If you're more worried about other knuckleheads, then this might be good for you. If you're more worried about your own skill/development, then maybe not. It really depends on who you are and how good you are...

It has a lot to do with the classes you'll want to run. I definitely found the Twins GTO class to be the most fun, because the riders are generally more mature and less-likely to make bonehead maneuvers. Still, racing is fun in all the classes.

The RC is a great bike on which one can be very competitive, although you are correct that a lesser rider can definitely compete with the 150HP or so that the 1098 pumps out by comparison. I know because it happened to me more than once this year, and was frustrating. I also know that while it's great fun to have the baddest twin on the planet, if it pushes you to the budget max, fear of tossing it can be pretty stressful, and make you ride more cautiously than you might on the RC.

The 675 is an amazing bike. I almost bought one late last year before settling on a used race-prepped CBR600RR. Definitely check on class availability with this one, just like with a GSXR-750, as you may be excluded from classes you want to run.

The SV is a great economy choice, for sure. At the MOM series I run at Miller, there just happen to be very few of them on the grid, so a buddy of mine sold his and bought a Gixxer 600 to race, because having such small grids was kind of boring. That's not the case in other parts of the country, though, so check that out.

As you've seen in my racing blogs, it's a rush like no other, and I plan to keep doing it, despite the risks to health and bank account. You seem to be going about it the right way, especially with pursuing training to help you do it as safely and successfully as possible.

bwhip · 09-21-2007, 04:03 PM

BTW, I voted for the RC. It gives you a variety of options for racing classes, and will allow you to save money for tires, fuel, travel, entry fees, and all of the other budget-busters racing leads to, vs. the 1098S or others. The SV would be great in its own class if it's a decent-sized grid, but will not be competitive in a class with I-4 600's. My next choice would be an I-4 600, which you can run in either GTU or GTO classes, or both, like I did.

Crash · 09-21-2007, 04:21 PM

Thanks bwhip. I was really wanting your weigh in as I know you've done it more recently, esp with the RC. Your advice is always a treat. Thanks and consider your thoughts duely noted.

Hammer · 09-21-2007, 05:05 PM

As others have said about checking into the org that you want to run with and then making an informed decision about what you could run. If at all possible, you may want to look at a smaller bike, SV650 comes to mind....but that is here in the midwest. We do have 3 orgs that I can run with though. I have a GSXR 600 and love it though for the track sizes in this area.

CBRVFR · 09-21-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepOfBlue

...but passenger sheep magic HP won't work on a Suzuki.

My SV doesn't need your HP magic...

An SV would be a good, fun way to start out for the first year. Yeah, you wouldn't be 'competitive' against a well ridden I-4, but when you move up to a 600 you'll be a better rider.

SuperDave · 09-22-2007, 08:01 AM

Anything above an SV650 will require you to spend a lot of your "budget" on tires.

The SV650 is competitive, even a first generation model, and there are many others that are racing the bike. So, if you don't have a part that you need when you fall down, an SV friend will probably help you out.

Because it's so common, there's a great knowledge base on simple things to do to get the SV working better and to keep it running.

tigerblade · 09-22-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

Anything above an SV650 will require you to spend a lot of your "budget" on tires.

The SV650 is competitive, even a first generation model, and there are many others that are racing the bike. So, if you don't have a part that you need when you fall down, an SV friend will probably help you out.

Because it's so common, there's a great knowledge base on simple things to do to get the SV working better and to keep it running.

In other words, see Post #5.

SuperDave · 09-22-2007, 11:23 AM

Except that you can loose starting on something other than the SV...

LOL!

Hamburglar · 09-23-2007, 02:33 PM

I voted 1098s just because I saw the 'which bike?' poll on the main page. After reading this post I say SV650.

Crash · 09-24-2007, 11:17 AM

Yeah, I'm really leaning towards an SV at this point. I'd hate to see something happen to my RC in anger. The SV is pretty much disposable and are everywhere out here. I figure I spend a season being a back marker and learning proper corner speed with the small twin, then step up to a IV 600.

Dude, you can score a SV650s for under 3k, and that's with aftermarket crap already on it. Beginner bikes that people don't understand are ripe for the picking.

slickwill · 09-24-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

My true hidden desire is to have Ducati unveil their 750 version of the 1098. That is supposed to happen later this year (allegedly)

Also my desire.

Crash · 11-14-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash

My true hidden desire is to have Ducati unveil their 750 version of the 1098. That is supposed to happen later this year (allegedly)

Well since Ducati went and gave the 848 a formal press release. I am now at a crossroads. I already started to prep the RC..... oh it's killing me. 848 has more hp than the RC, is lighter, sexier, blah blah.... Being a back marker on the RC is looking less attractive. I'd be much cooler as a back marker on the 848

SuperDave · 11-14-2007, 12:19 PM

Yeah, but the exclusivity of the cost of the 848 is going to reduce the numbers racing. Think of how you'll beat up on those guys with your current bike.

Even at Road America, I could keep up with and beat a guy on a big money 999R on my stock SV1000. Yeah, it's me, and I can see where his set up isn't so good, but it was fun. And I'm not out that kind of money.

You know it's part of the thought process, the preparation, etc. Don't make it the responsibility of the bike. It's just club racing. Overcome, overtake.

bwhip · 11-14-2007, 01:12 PM

I think the 848 HP numbers they've been spouting are at the crank, so I don't think it will have a big advantage there. Lighter for sure.

View Poll Results: Which Bike?
2005 RC51 - Current and just a joy to ride	6	17.65%
Ducati 1098s - Goodbye bank account	6	17.65%
Triumph 675 - Awesome and affordable	4	11.76%
SV650 - Dyed in the wool fun bike	11	32.35%
Other - Basic cookie cutter Jap Inline 4	7	20.59%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

09-21-2007, 02:07 PM	#1
Crash Life is getting better Join Date: 12-20-2006 Location: Simi Valley, CA Bike(s): 03 KTM 525 SMC, 05 RC-51 Posts: 316	Up in the air... Alright, I knew this would happen sooner or later. I gotta go racing. I thought that Supermoto would cure this desire, but you just don't have that... ummmm..... something that sportbikes have. It was fun and it made me giggle a lot, but it just lacked something. Since I started riding street bikes, some 20 years ago, (I would steel my brothers Passport 70 and joy ride around the block, then I moved up to his RZ350 when I was tall enough), I’ve always wanted to know what it was like to do this with competition. Track days are fun, and I try to keep them that way. My track buddies have no desire to push hard or “play” that much. I took some time off when the twins were born, and nothing will kill the desire to race than paying child care cost for twins and private school for the 6 year old. However, the fates are once again smiling upon us and I feel the need to finally scratch that racing itch. After years of sitting back and lurking and reading about everyone’s racing experiences and tabulating the costs associated with the sport, I just have to do it. I have my planned progression of schools and have three more track days booked through Nov and am looking to add more. These are geared more towards obtaining bike set-up and physical stamina. The schools are for the obvious reasons of learning and hoping to leach from some of the top riders of yesteryear that can still hold their own on a modern day grid. My only real question about this whole thing is what bike to use? I had an epiphany with the RC while at our Miller event. It clicked and towards the end, I was riding it like I never thought I could. It’s still more capable than I am, but to face facts and looking at the equipment being used in the classes it would race in, its two generations old and is down 20-30hp on the latest twins. I can’t stand working my ass off to pass in corners only to have some yahoo on a 1000cc 4 take me back on the straights. It’s a zero net gain. This was a major rub at Miller especially with the straight long enough land the space shuttle on. I’ve been holding off on the Duc 1098. While I could do it, it would be at the upper limit of overall budget and would reduce the amount I could spend on track days and other goodies. My true hidden desire is to have Ducati unveil their 750 version of the 1098. That is supposed to happen later this year (allegedly) Third option is the Triumph 675. This bike has come on strong as a contender in my opinion. I got to ride one awhile back, and while it was set-up for someone much heavier than I, it was a kick. Once I got used to the front end feel, it became clear that this is probably the most overlooked bike in its class (even after winning IMOTY). I’ve really begun to lust over the thing the more I read about it and go down and make vroom vroom noises on it. Cost is not a major issue, and finding parts is getting easier. I just don’t think racing in the supersport class is the “ease into the sport” grid. We all know it is the biggest grid with the most young and brave souls. Last option is the tried and true SV650. Don’t need to explain much here, it’s the bike to have when entering the sport for training and competition. Parts are cheap; bike is cheap, so much so you can get two new ones for the price of a GSXR1000. It comes down to time to prep and learn a new machine or go with what I have until I really am getting to the limits of it. I am open to any and all opinions. Thanks __________________ Soon to be http://www.c5graphicdesign.com Funded by viewers like you

09-21-2007, 02:23 PM	#2
SheepOfBlue SRA President Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Age: 46 Bike(s): CBR1000RR, RC51, VT500FT Posts: 6,515	Re: Up in the air... Spend a year losing on the RC and having fun. Unless you think you have the ability to go and be top 10 or less regular in year one why worry? You can likely learn more pushing to keep up that slacking on a superior bike. Of course a passenger sheep will add the needed 10-20HP as I am currently undefeated in all grudge matches EDIT: and beware the dye jobs they are usually hiding something __________________ A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way Last edited by SheepOfBlue; 09-21-2007 at 03:20 PM.

09-21-2007, 02:28 PM	#3
Crash Life is getting better Join Date: 12-20-2006 Location: Simi Valley, CA Bike(s): 03 KTM 525 SMC, 05 RC-51 Posts: 316	Re: Up in the air... Sound advice from a very logical sheep __________________ Soon to be http://www.c5graphicdesign.com Funded by viewers like you

09-21-2007, 02:34 PM	#4
seamus is feelin alright Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Rocket City Age: 34 Bike(s): 1KRR; VFR; FMX650 Posts: 5,564	Re: Up in the air... I'd say to just ride what you like. If you're looking to win it all in the first season, go with the bike you think will do that. If you're looking to race and enjoy yourself, you should get the bike that lets you do that. Based on what you said, I don't think blowing your wad on a 1098 would let you enjoy yourself as much as pushing the RC or SV around the track. And since you've already said the RC is clicking for you, I say go with the RC. __________________ Ducit Amor Patriae Richard Herald, The Gentle Giant The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. --- Thucydides

09-21-2007, 02:39 PM	#5
tigerblade Just curious Join Date: 12-15-2006 Location: The MIL Age: 34 Bike(s): SV650S Posts: 2,114	Re: Up in the air... I guess I'd split my vote 50-50 between racing the RC and getting an SV. I started on my RC for a few races, then got the SV. You will learn more on the SV, IMHO. Both are fun though; you can't really lose with either option. SV will be easier on tires. Also, you can run the SV in more classes and when you're starting out, the track time will be more important than the bike you're on. Oh, and if you need a spare part, it'll be much easier to find someone in the paddock who can loan you an SV part than an RC51 part, or give you advice on setup, etc.

09-21-2007, 03:05 PM	#7
Heavy-Dee The Murph Join Date: 12-17-2006 Age: 31 Bike(s): 2004 GSXR 600 Posts: 2,710	Re: Up in the air... My It really depends on the org that you'll be racing with. If it's a popular and competitive org start w/ the SV. However, some smaller orgs actually have smaller less competitive big bore classes. It really depends on what your concerns are. If you're more worried about other knuckleheads, then this might be good for you. If you're more worried about your own skill/development, then maybe not. It really depends on who you are and how good you are. Look at Whipper; it was his first year and he did really, really well. While me on the other hand am finishing my 3-4 year and really didn't make that much progress this year, while the rest of the field got faster (or the slow guys didn't show leaving me...no where ) __________________ Epic Fail

09-21-2007, 03:14 PM	#8
jose_jimenez Jonah for prez! Join Date: 01-05-2007 Bike(s): Hurricane Posts: 1,994	Re: Up in the air... I'd say do what BDA did, get yourself a wrecked 600rr and go to work. __________________ http://www.bushslastday.com/

09-21-2007, 03:20 PM	#9
Crash Life is getting better Join Date: 12-20-2006 Location: Simi Valley, CA Bike(s): 03 KTM 525 SMC, 05 RC-51 Posts: 316	Re: Up in the air... Thanks TB. Your adventures in the begining are what lead me to the RC in the first place. HD - I've been struggling with those issues as well. First and foremost, it's about rider development and learning. I know I'm not going out my first time and doing anything other than fill the back marker position as dutifully as possible. I don't know of any smaller local series other than Willow Springs Motorcycle Club. I would like to run other tracks but that means WERA or CCS and those grids can be huge. I need to research more in terms of what series I can run in. __________________ Soon to be http://www.c5graphicdesign.com Funded by viewers like you

09-21-2007, 04:03 PM	#11
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,952	Re: Up in the air... BTW, I voted for the RC. It gives you a variety of options for racing classes, and will allow you to save money for tires, fuel, travel, entry fees, and all of the other budget-busters racing leads to, vs. the 1098S or others. The SV would be great in its own class if it's a decent-sized grid, but will not be competitive in a class with I-4 600's. My next choice would be an I-4 600, which you can run in either GTU or GTO classes, or both, like I did. __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery

09-21-2007, 04:21 PM	#12
Crash Life is getting better Join Date: 12-20-2006 Location: Simi Valley, CA Bike(s): 03 KTM 525 SMC, 05 RC-51 Posts: 316	Re: Up in the air... Thanks bwhip. I was really wanting your weigh in as I know you've done it more recently, esp with the RC. Your advice is always a treat. Thanks and consider your thoughts duely noted. __________________ Soon to be http://www.c5graphicdesign.com Funded by viewers like you

09-21-2007, 05:05 PM	#13
Hammer For Sale Join Date: 12-17-2006 Location: Indiana Age: 39 Bike(s): 05 Suzuki 600 Posts: 5,031 Images: 12	Re: Up in the air... As others have said about checking into the org that you want to run with and then making an informed decision about what you could run. If at all possible, you may want to look at a smaller bike, SV650 comes to mind....but that is here in the midwest. We do have 3 orgs that I can run with though. I have a GSXR 600 and love it though for the track sizes in this area. __________________ SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS

09-22-2007, 08:01 AM	#15
SuperDave Member #300 Join Date: 02-27-2007 Location: WI Bike(s): XB12R, TTR125, H1 Posts: 258	Re: Up in the air... Anything above an SV650 will require you to spend a lot of your "budget" on tires. The SV650 is competitive, even a first generation model, and there are many others that are racing the bike. So, if you don't have a part that you need when you fall down, an SV friend will probably help you out. Because it's so common, there's a great knowledge base on simple things to do to get the SV working better and to keep it running. __________________ Super Dave Rosno Super Dave's Race Against Childhood Cancer Visionsports Riding Schools - Team Visionsports' Racing You can sign up for my email newsletters here...

09-22-2007, 11:23 AM	#17
SuperDave Member #300 Join Date: 02-27-2007 Location: WI Bike(s): XB12R, TTR125, H1 Posts: 258	Re: Up in the air... Except that you can loose starting on something other than the SV... LOL! __________________ Super Dave Rosno Super Dave's Race Against Childhood Cancer Visionsports Riding Schools - Team Visionsports' Racing You can sign up for my email newsletters here...

09-23-2007, 02:33 PM	#18
Hamburglar Join Date: 12-18-2006 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Age: 27 Bike(s): Aprilia Tuono Posts: 188	Re: Up in the air... I voted 1098s just because I saw the 'which bike?' poll on the main page. After reading this post I say SV650.

09-24-2007, 11:17 AM	#19
Crash Life is getting better Join Date: 12-20-2006 Location: Simi Valley, CA Bike(s): 03 KTM 525 SMC, 05 RC-51 Posts: 316	Re: Up in the air... Yeah, I'm really leaning towards an SV at this point. I'd hate to see something happen to my RC in anger. The SV is pretty much disposable and are everywhere out here. I figure I spend a season being a back marker and learning proper corner speed with the small twin, then step up to a IV 600. Dude, you can score a SV650s for under 3k, and that's with aftermarket crap already on it. Beginner bikes that people don't understand are ripe for the picking. __________________ Soon to be http://www.c5graphicdesign.com Funded by viewers like you

11-14-2007, 12:19 PM	#22
SuperDave Member #300 Join Date: 02-27-2007 Location: WI Bike(s): XB12R, TTR125, H1 Posts: 258	Re: Up in the air... Yeah, but the exclusivity of the cost of the 848 is going to reduce the numbers racing. Think of how you'll beat up on those guys with your current bike. Even at Road America, I could keep up with and beat a guy on a big money 999R on my stock SV1000. Yeah, it's me, and I can see where his set up isn't so good, but it was fun. And I'm not out that kind of money. You know it's part of the thought process, the preparation, etc. Don't make it the responsibility of the bike. It's just club racing. Overcome, overtake. __________________ Super Dave Rosno Super Dave's Race Against Childhood Cancer Visionsports Riding Schools - Team Visionsports' Racing You can sign up for my email newsletters here...

11-14-2007, 01:12 PM	#23
bwhip Every ride a gift... Join Date: 12-13-2006 Location: Idaho, USA Bike(s): 1098S-SXV550-849-Ruckus Posts: 3,952	Re: Up in the air... I think the 848 HP numbers they've been spouting are at the crank, so I don't think it will have a big advantage there. Lighter for sure. __________________ Seamus is awesome. Seriously. My Gallery