Thread: Which Dual Sport Should I Choose for an Adventure Tour, KLR or DR650?

Chuck -

Welcome to the forum.
This is a great forum and know that you will be impressed with the folks here. Super nice people and with lots of experience(s).

I joined to learn as much as possible, so here goes.....I would like to inquire as to your choice of the KLR vs. say a DR650SE. I know it depends alot on the type of riding you do and how you plan to use the bike.

I am into adventure / distance touring mixed on & offroad. This summer I rode to the Arctc Ocean at Prudhoe Bay on my R1200GS/A. In 2010 or 2011 aI am considering riding to & through South America.

I will probably not use my GS/A for that trip and am working on a decision between a KLR, an XR650L or a DR650SE - properly outfitted and prepped of course - hence the basis for my question to you.

I would be very interested in your selection process and criteria for your choice and your observation(s) of your KLRs to-date.

Sorry for the long-winded post.

Again - WELCOME. I know you will like the folks here on this forum, I certainly do.

regards - Dave

Originally Posted by charlie2744

Thanks for the welcome Dave.
I can answer you inquiery regarding the DR -vs- the KLR.
KLR = bigger gas tank, better "on ashphalt" performane, the cult following,
the chicks dig the KLR better . I would like to have had the BMW but could not see spending the extra "jack" (nor did I have it to spend).
This "Little Red Pig is more able on the dirt, rocks than I am for sure. I cannot ride it to it's potential. I'm OK with that. I have done 300 mile days on both the DR & my KiLleR, and am very happy I chose my Pig. The DR was much more comfortable in the dirt, (as is the Honda XR650L) but I do more like 77.49% pavemant.

Chuck -

Just want to say a big Thank You for your perspective on your KLR vs. the DR - most sincerely appreciated. I am reading KLR and DR specific forums attempting to learn as much as possible - and talk with people who actually own and ride each bike.

I think that I need to do more planning on my potential routes through South America and see what % is paved vs. unpaved, also.

Many thanks again !

Best regards - Dave

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Out on a ride on the GS I saw a guy with a kitted out KLR I thought was an GS800. It was a great looking bike, and the owner put down lots of miles on it.

Which brings up another point, you looking at the GS800 Dave?

luvtolean -

Thank you for the input. Yes, as a matter of fact, I am looking at the F800GS. I met a guy in Alaska riding one who had traded his 1200GS for an 800GS. He loved the 800.

My issues with the F800GS are:

1) at least 100 pounds more weight than the KLR or DR (or at least the DR)
2) high initial purchase price (not many used ones out there, so that tells you something about the F800GS )
3) limited fuel capacity - not many options to add capacity other than a carry-along aluminum tank
4) IF...God forbid I would have to abandon a bike in South America, I would rather walk away from a KLR or DR than an F800GS

Those are my thoughts at this juncture, but the F800GS is definately on my radar screen for candidates.

Thanks again for the input & suggestions. I'm appreciative of any and all input and suggestions - I really want to gain perspective and input from others.

regards - Dave

Welcome aboard from over here Chuck. I'm glad Luvto asked you the 800 question as I was going to ask you the same thing! I use an old Elefant for those tasks, but certainly the weight is against it (weighs much more than my 1098!). It hit the deck recently in a very isolated corner of New South Wales, with a full tank - worked out why they called it an Elefant...
They/we are a friendly bunch on here - some a bit loony (wasn't that African vs. European swallow question from Monty Python's Holy Grail, Sheep?). By the way SoB, I think the attractive new member Carlgustav is from your neck of the woods - or are you using an alias now? (If so, we must meet up in November!).

Originally Posted by MotoVegas

Kicked around the KTM 990 at all? Got a friend that has owned both it and a GSA and he preferred the KTM (although, I think he's crazy).

This is going to be a bit-longish post. As I noted, I want to ride / tour South America (SA). I have a lot of experience riding offroad in the US, Central America and Peru, South America. I just finished a 10,000+ mile tour to Alaska / Prudhoe Bay doing a decent amount of dirt & gravel roads. My GS/A was perfect for the environment.

However, wandering around SA will require a different bike IMHO. If I want to explore SA there will lots of poorly maintained dirt & gravel roads, water crossings, rocky areas and limited fuel & most importantly parts accessability. I have also written, met & spoken directly with riders who
have been through SA. One almost had to abandon his bike there due to a paperwork screwup at a border crossing and they would not let him take the bike out of the country.

So......my criteria for a dual sport moto for touring SA are:

1) reliability - simple, prefer air / oil cooling vs. water cooled with radiators, pump & hoses to all get destroyed in the boonies in a crash with no parts and no way out. Reliability and durability are my #1 criteria.

2) weight - light as possible for running dirt roads, trails and exploring and "easy" to pickup after a drop or a crash

3) I will have to carry what I need - parts, clothes, tools, etc. I will need a bike capable of carrying a decent load and availability of mounting rugged and lockable panniers / hard cases. This is for security of items and durability in a crash.

4) fuel capacity - there are areas I plan to go where fuel is a big issue - either not available or of very poor quality. I will need at least a 300 mile range and not get stranded. I can carry plastic cans, or use a bolt on fuel cell in the passenger seat area. This can be setup with a permanent fuel line tap / petcock or simply fill a portable can and dump into the main tank. Weight positioning is also an issue if I go with this option. I would probably go with a 5 gallon fuel cell and use an IMS maintank - which if I recall is a 4.9 gallon tank. This in combo with the fuel cell would give me ~10 gallons on-board and yield a range up to 450 to 500 miles. I would not use the fuel cell until / unless I knew that I was venturing into "parts-unknown" with fuel scarcity risk.

5) ability to add / modify to provide some wind /weather protection

6) reasonable availability of spare and repair parts - SA is not easy and remote areas will provide a special challenge. Therefore, proper prep & setup will be critical for reliability and durability, but stuff happens and sometimes you must procure parts. In SA I need to ensure that I can get parts locally or have them shipped in.

I prefer a shaft drive, but I know that the only possibilities are the GS and it does not meet my weight criteria. So these are my primary criteria.

Any other thoughts, commentary, opinions, etc. ???

No moto is perfect for all situations. The candidate list includes:

1) Honda XR650L - prone to frame fractures (same as the XR400, with which I have LOTS of experience in Costa Rica), probably best for the dirt sections, not so much for the street / highway sections

2) DR650SE - old school, but generally reliable if properly prepped and setup, not great for droning road use, but probably better in the dirt than the KLR

3) KLR650 - large following, better for the road / street than the DR, but I have read many stories of electrical and mechanical failures that are tough to diagnose, generally easiest to fix on the road

4) F800GS - great bike with availability of accessories - panniers, et al. Lots of power, fuel injected, water cooled (complex...), heavy when compared to other candidates, expensive to buy & maintain, etc.

There is a MOUNTAIN of info here and on other forums on all of these bikes that I working my way through. No real opinions yet, but trying to gather information and opinions from real-life users and users of all of these candidates.

Any and all comments, observations and opinions are welcome !

thanks for reading this drivel.....Dave

Originally Posted by ONEvcs

I had a '96 or '98 DR650SE, I don't remember now. It worked great until it blew a cylinder head gasket one week, then it broke the shaft holder to the left engine case for the electric start motor (I don't know what that's called technically) the week after. It needed a left engine case replacement. It was a known issue with the bike model for several years. I've been told by the dealership that it has been fixed since then on newer models.

ONEvcs -

Thank you for the information. You are correct, the earlier DR's had a paper cylinder base gasket prone to leakage which was then upgraded. I have also heard of the a shaft walking problem.

My understanding is that has been rectified as well. My choice, if I ultimately go with a DR, would be post-model year 2003, as I believe many issues have been fixed since that year.

Thank you for the input ! Much appreciated.

Dave

I would go with the KLR. For hard core dirt, the DR or the XRL are probaly better, but I would guess thats a small portion of your trip. There is such a following with the KLR and huge aftermarket support. You can probaly gear up a KLR (big tank, racks, guards, panniers, etc) out of one or two catalogs. The motors are good for 30-50k miles with basic maintance and the only mod it needs is the primary chain adjuster dohicky. If your not already over there, check out adventurerider.com, plenty of good info on KLR's over there.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Dave, when it comes to getting parts in S America, how does it work? What is most common? Is it important to have a popular brand and dealership network, or a popular bike?

There's a dude selling a 2009 DR650 locally for $3500 asking. I guess if you want a new bike that wouldn't freak you completely out to walk away from, that's a strong argument. But I've never ridden one. I'm still plotting my Alaska adventure...S America in time.

I've taken plenty of water cooled dirtbikes (all I've ever owned) into nasty places before. Even folded a rad. I'd get braces and guards, carry JB weld, duct tape and zip ties, have water, pee in it if I had to, and figure one way or another I could make it work. I don't know, maybe 20 years and 100's of crashes have lulled me into false security with the technology.

lutolean -

All good questions and points. I coud probably post a book on this, but won't. I wish I had Abe Lincoln's talent for both brevity and impact....

As you know, I used to operate MotoAdventures and we an operation in Peru, South America as well as Costa Rica, Central America (which is still in operation). We operated out of Lima, Peru and rode point-to-point for 5 days for each tour. We selected Honda XR650R's for the duty and these were selected for:

1) good reputation in the rider community for desert riding - huge power for the large dunes and Andes mountains without rejetting
2) durability
3) parts availability
4) service / dealer in Lima, Peru - I had a very good relationship with Roberto of Desert Sport Racing. Good shop and qualified mechanics.
5) I did not like the water cooling aspect, although we had relatively few problems, but the majority of riding was in sand and a tipover or crash did not normally result in radiator damage. They DID however overheat periodically puking coolant out of the overflow tank.

So.....I have experience only operating in Peru, not the rest of South America. After my experience in Peru, and after talking to other riders experienced in other countries in SA, parts availability and quality service for major repairs is a problem / challenging.

After my research, I believe that I need to select a moto with a decent dealer network for any major repairs, not necessarily a popular bike or model. At least they will have access to ordering parts from the US and to service manuals in Spanish. Let's face it, you have to be able to do basic repairs (& even more complex things) and service yourself or you shouldn't be in SA riding solo.

The majority of motos used in Central and South America are used for transportation and delivery. Costa Rica is loaded with 100 and 125 motos - a 175 is a big bike. You do not see many larger displacement motos - some but not many.

We have tested various KTM's in Costa Rica to replace the aging Honda XR400 fleet. The KTM's always had problems - just not very durable - especially the water cooled 4 strokes. Different purpose as these were purely offroad motos and not dual-sports, but I have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth for KTM's as a result. No flames, please.....

We have a newer CRF250X we are using as the guide bike in Costa Rica and it is nice, but not durable. The piston is a very short skirt and not very rugged. A number of top end rebuilds have been required. I am biased towards simple and air / oil cooled engines based upon my experiences in Costa rica as the XR400 will NOT leave you stranded in the jungle in Costa Rica. At times you can hear the oil boiling in the oil cooler on a XR400 in Costa Rica and it never quits. We have towed other bikes out of the jungle with the XR400's.

Having been in the Andes in Peru - WAY away from anything, a serious failure is sobering as is a pickup(s) of a heavy motorcycle at altitude. My considerations are I am now 53 years old - not 35, knee surgery, some arthritis in my knees and feet, and lifetime blood thinners (a serious crash with internal injuries might not have a good outcome - i.e. puncture a lung or rupture a spleen).

Lots of stuff roiling around in my head. The Alaska trip to Prudhoe was great, and relatively easy with only dirt & gravel roads but some mud on the Haul Road. I do NOT plan to sell my GS/A as it has many applications - return to Alaska and maybe the Trans-Labrador Highway in Canada, etc. The GS/A is just not the bike for exploring in SA as I really want to do more trails and dirt roads -- and maybe have to sell or abandon the bike in SA.

I have also considered altering my route(s) to make them less gnarly, but that kind of defeats the point of going, IMHO. I want this trip to SA to be an accomplishment and a challenge, and fun & interesting at the same time.

Whew....sorry for the length. Thanks to all for input, suggestions, recommendations, first-hand experiences with your bikes, et al.

Dave

While continuing my research project on bike, I found these crash bars for the F800GS that look substantial to protect the engine and the radiator assembly: bmw f800gs f800 gs crash engine bars - Guard-it-Technology - BMW F800GS Crashbars - adventure-spec.com: Off-Road Adventure Motorcycling gear,UK,enduro,rally,rallye,touring,rtw,mx

Dave

I just did a quickie back-of-the-envelope cost estimate (by no means definitive) of prepping a "modern" DR650SE to SA tour specs. I won't post all of the specifics as I am probably close to be labeled a

Assuming an initial purchase cost of $4,000 for a lightly used DR specimen, I come up with ~$9,500 after fork upgrades, rear shock upgrades, brake lines, new aluminum bars, bark busters, aluminum panniers, center stand, etc. I was surprised by the cost (higher than expected).

I need to do the same for a modern KLR650 and F800GS to do a side-by-side comparison for a cost assessment, disregarding my previously noted criteria (weight & air / oil cooling).

The F800GS may win in a balanced cost comparison for what you get for the $$$ - power, sophisticated suspension, FI, etc. If so, I am still faced with the weight issue and the water cooling dislike. Maybe I need to change my perspective if I feel that I can adequately protect the cooling system in its entirety.

F800GS weight, though.....ughh.

Dave

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Refreshingly, the brand loyalty BS that can get obnoxious on advrider is notably absent.

Exactly why I wanted this to have it's own thread.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't want to be PITA.

I am not loyal to any brand - well, maybe my Ducati's......

But for a dual-sport for a SA tour, I simply want to select and outfit the right bike for the right circumstances. I REALLY appreciate all of the input received here without the aforementioned brand-loyalty BS. Agree 100% on your observation at ADVRider.

people have done SA, Africa, Alaska, etc on small bikes, poorly prepped and they made it, so maybe I'm obsessing more than I should. I just have some experience in the jungles of Central America that were NO FUN with broken bikes, broken bodies, etc. I know SA is worse because of the distances, remoteness of areas and the altitude which can be a real killer when you're down and in trouble.

As for being a legitimate expert, welll.....I'm pretty darned good at falling off at the wrong times !

All the best - Dave